Steris34

Nervous Switching from AB to Mitubishi

11 posts in this topic

My company has been using AB Micrologix 1400 PLC's for about 8-10 years.  These PLC have been great but they are pricey and they don't support advanced coding techniques - they only do ladder logic.  We are interested in going to something that allows tag based variables, structured text, function blocks, etc.  To this end, our search is leading us to look at at the Mitsubishi FX5U.

To frame this up, we don't do anything too fancy, basically we have some sensor input and we use that to open and close some process valves.  We don't do any motion control, high frequency counting, PID, SCADA, etc.  Basically, we use the PLC as a fancy automated on/off controller.

I am nervous to switch to Mitsubishi mainly because Mitsubishi is an unknown to me.  I don't have a feel for their quality, support, rampant bugs, etc.  AB has been very well supported and is a very stable platform.  However, jumping up to the AB RS5000 series to get the desired functionality of different programming techniques is way out of our budget.  Can anyone who is familiar with Mitsubishi shed some light on Mitsubishi's quality, support and stability?  Are their products pretty good?  Any thought on the FX5U PLC?  Are there many horror stories related to Mitsubishi?  Am I being a sucker to AB's marketing team by being this nervous? 

I appreciate any help!  Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you search this forum, you will find age old posts about "transition from AB to Mitsubishi". i rarely touch PLC these days but here you have great support team to help you along the way.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Steris34,

I've used several brands in my carreer and I can tell you I've never had a more reliable brand than Mitsubishi. Excellent harware, very cost-effective and available around the world.

I wonder why you need stuctured texts etc. if your programming is straight forward without any special functions. Stay with the KISS (Keep It Super Simple) principle and just use ladder logic that everybody understands. Don't be nervous and welcome to the Mitsubishi world. If you run into problems mr. PLC is here to help you! :-)

Best regards,

Theo V.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have extensive

Quote
Quote

I have been using Mitsubishi for nearly 20 years. Quality is not an issue I can assure you. The Mitsubishi product has been in the industry for many decades, and one of its most highly regarded qualities is its reliability. I would consider AB and Mitsubishi to be the top two brands available. Change always causes a little discomfort, but the IEC format of say GX Works 2 or three, which is the programming software for Mitsubishi, is not difficult and there is a lot of support material to assist in this area. As for capability, both are quality main stream products and do deliver in this area to be fair. Pricing, and I speak here from my own experience here only, Mitsubishi is well positioned and has usually been ahead in this area.

I am confident you can transition to Mitsubishi without much difficulty at all. I would suggest purchasing a FX series PLC and GX Works 2 and try for your self. The same software will cover the larger Q series PLC as well.

Good Luck !

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Steris34 said:

To frame this up, we don't do anything too fancy, basically we have some sensor input and we use that to open and close some process valves.  We don't do any motion control, high frequency counting, PID, SCADA, etc.  Basically, we use the PLC as a fancy automated on/off controller.

This is exactly what the ladder exists for, and I see absolutely no benefits in using structured text in your case.

And function blocks, wherever supported, may be done in ladder too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also wonder why you need the extra functionality since you say that you only use the simplest of functions in you existing PLC.

However, you probably have your reasons. I can inform you upfront that I mainly only work with Mitsu PLC's hence my information is pretty subjective.

Mitsubishi is in my experience one of the most reliable PLC brands in the world, at least hardware wise. However since they are very rigid in the testing process and development, they are often a step behind in releasing the latest in technology (like new communication protocols etc.). This is again because of their extensive testing process which doesn't allow for products to be released until they are 110% sure that everything is in working order. It's kind of like "give and take": If you release the latest news immediately you will never have enough time for the extensive testing and quality controls, but if you have the best in quality controls then you won't have time to release the latest "cool" products.

Mitsubishi also have some of the fastest CPU's available, but this probably doesn't apply in your case.

Further, at least in Norway, we have excellent support teams but I think this is variable around the world depending on the other competitors. I'm pretty sure that Mitsu isn't any worse (or better) than the competing brands so I don't think you'll have problems here.

One "drawback" is GX Works software, since it has become a very large software package. In my opinion they were easier to get a hang of in the past (GX IEC Developer and MMP), but I think this applies to all brands which offers IEC ladder, structured text Function blocks etc. so again, so when it comes to "real" PLC's (not the cheapest ones) I don't think Mitsubishi is so different from the rest.

This forum is excellent if you need starting help as others have pointed out, and I'm sure you will get the help needed (if any is needed).

So all in all: Mitsubishi is in my region better with support (I cannot speak for your region when it comes to support), software is the same as others, and the hardware is "future-wise" a bit slow but the hardware and tested products are way better than anyone else.

If you "must" switch PLC brand, switch to Mitsubishi!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, kaare_t said:

One "drawback" is GX Works software, since it has become a very large software package. In my opinion they were easier to get a hang of in the past (GX IEC Developer and MMP), but I think this applies to all brands which offers IEC ladder, structured text Function blocks etc. so again, so when it comes to "real" PLC's (not the cheapest ones) I don't think Mitsubishi is so different from the rest.

I've been reading on different forums and have seen people complain about the GX Works3 software a fair bit.  Are there any specific function sets or features that are difficult to use?  Is the software really buggy and unpredictable?  Are the instruction sets poorly defined or documented?  I would be very grateful if you could help me out and let me know what about the programming environment is frustrating.  Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

show me automation software that is not buggy... ;-)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Steris34 said:

I've been reading on different forums and have seen people complain about the GX Works3 software a fair bit.  Are there any specific function sets or features that are difficult to use?  Is the software really buggy and unpredictable?  Are the instruction sets poorly defined or documented?  I would be very grateful if you could help me out and let me know what about the programming environment is frustrating.  Thanks!

GX Works 3 is still in new release and though true that functionality does not match Works2, they are continually updating the software to include and or fix complained items. With the latest release (V1.020 I believe) Simulation is available.

One thing about Mitsubishi, their support is free and if you register your software on their website they provide a years worth of updates for free.

56df0b6f01b42_GXWorks3revisions.thumb.pn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have over a thousand FX's in the field, and have found them to be seriously built proof (apart fro a couple of outputs failing not one PLC has gone down in close to fifteen years).  Mitsubishi software is also very cheap compared to AB (and does not change revision every 20 seconds). Same with the PLC's no firmware updates etc like AB. However, If your coming from AB I would check out how you got on with GT Designer before committing yourself. Mitsubishi HMI hardware is fantastic (and seriously good IP protection) but IMHO the software for them is just dire compared to AB. Another downer for Mitsubishi is documentation  - lots of it in "chinglish". Amazes me how such huge organization cannot afford to pass its document authoring though a native English speaker.

     

 

Edited by Nightfly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been installing Mitsi plc's for 25 Years when the software MEDOC was DOS based (and I still miss it) and reading your post made me think about how many failed units I have had in that time. I couldn't think of one. Then I did, just one.

It was on a glass crushing machine that vibrated unbelievably. The panel was mounted on springs and rubber to minimise the vibration and at some point these were removed. It still batted on for years before being shook to death. (and when I say vibrating - the input/output lights were just a red streak of light....you couldn't focus on them)

But your concern is more about the software. I have programmed many brands and every single one has quirks that make you furrow your brow wondering why the developers made it like that. (Mitsubishi is not exempt from that list) especially with memory and data allocation.

Like all programming software - it takes a while to get used to 'the differences'  but millions chose mitsi over all the rest for a reason other than price.

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now