Ron_S

2 HMI's 1 plc.

18 posts in this topic

I'm shortly to be doing a retro-fit of an old system. The old system is for chemical dosing of dyeing batches. It is a PC DOS and keyboard setup and it has gone 'belly up' It's not much more than pumps and valves and measuring meters that need different recipes for different batches. So far so good. They want an HMI at the control end and another near the dyeing pans. I have not put 2 HMI's into one plc before and so I am asking what would be the best way? The PLC will be something like an FX1N or FX3 and the HMI's will be beijers E1000 series (not sure which ones yet) The farthest HMI will be about 60M away (or less) What is the best way to connect them?

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FX1N-232BD <-> RS232-E1000-RS 422 <-> RS422-E1000

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Thank you Inntele ??? Is there any communications I need to set up - or how do I do that?

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Agree with Inntele, but just one question before pulling the cables: If you already have ethernet between the locations, the easiest fix would be to use ethernet between everything, and maybe an FX3GE with built-in ethernet card. That way you could use the built-in ethernet ports on the HMIs, together with the built-in ethernet port in the PLC. If the cabling is already there then you won't have to do that either...

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Hi Ron_S, I agree with the Ethernet option and should go for a FX3GE PLC and a small DIN-Rail switch (Weidmuller/Wago etc). Max. distance 90mtrs from the switch to the PLC and HMI's. If you use E-terminals you can set the network parameters in E-Designer to your controller. However take in account that in NL the Beijer MAC E1000 series are end of life. Al least the textdisplay versions like E1032 are no longer available as new order (serviceparts delivery up to 7 years) So if you need to start with something new you should consider GOT touchscreen panels from Mitsubishi to be 'future proof' Please check your distibutor about chemical resistance and also touch operation wearing latex gloves because some panels do have a problem with that. (Aldough I always advise to take of the gloves first to keep the screen clean and free from chemical polution) And, if applicable in your enviroment, the ATEX regulations to avoid explosion hazard situations. Best regards, Theo V.

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Sorry, I can not make screenshots of settings, but: 1. The additional port of PLC must be set to support either Programming Tool Protocol, or Dedicated Protocol. The settings can be done using D8120 register or using PLC Parameters. 2. The appropriate FX PLC driver has to be choosen in HMI communication settings and a Transparent mode must be set for the 1st HMI.

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Thank you for all your help. I think I will go the rs232 way. But, I will set it up on my bench first and test it there.

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Some info from the E-Designer manual regarding serial communication. Snapshot_1.bmp Snapshot_2.bmp

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Dear Bryll, If with 1st picture you did want to say that is impossible to connect HMI to PLC directly via RS232 and then use RS422 port for connection of 2nd HMI, you are not right. Regarding to the 2nd picture. Yes, it's so: a speed of refresh of HMI data will be in two times slower. It's a disadvantage, while the advantage is that the HMIs are connected via optical isolated RS422 ports, that allow to provide a reliable link on distance up to 1000 meters. If the distance between HMIs is quite short and a data refresh time is critical, a BDTP (Beijer Data Transfer Protocol, which is UDP with handshake) via Ethernet line can be used for data transfer between E1000-series. Edited by Inntele

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I agree with Theo V Best way... FX3G (or 3U) + E-net module. Both HMI's connect directly into the PLC via Ethernet. Nice 'n' quick. You would program the unit using FX Configuratior. You can then use any HMI - even a GOT (how I dislike GT Designer). If you really want to use the E1000 then use the Beijer Exeter range instead. It is Identical (but you use Information designer instead of E-Designer - which is also identical Lol). Mitsubishi will stop selling these panels (in the UK) at the end of the year but Beijer will be selling them for many years to come (OK they really want to sell you the IX panels - but we have the Beijer Rep in often (we buy lots of panels) and he assures us the Exeter range will be sold for years to come (even if it is mainly to replace all the old Mitsubishi E-series out in the field now the Mitsubishi and Beijer have fallen out). Btw If you want to convent a E-Designer project to a Information designer project just rename the project mpa file to cpa then open up the file in a text editor (notepad) and change the top line from ; MAC Programmer import/export file, format 2 to ; CIMREX PROG import/export file and it will open up fine If you do want to connect to the PLC via serial you can still connect the panels together via Ethernet (you could even just make the second panel a BTDP station). Edited by Nightfly

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Still think FX3GE with built-in eth.

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Dear Inntele, Sorry if I was a bit unclear, but I tried to visualize what you recommended earlier with a picture (first picture). The second picture was to make Ron_S aware of the reduced speed when the connection of the first picture is used The communication speed might be sufficient even at 50%, but I agree with kaare_t that it's better to use an Ethernet connection. It will work whatever Ron_S decides to use. Sorry if this reply is a bit late, but I have been on a nice vacation.

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We use Mitsubishi FX3u PLC and Beijer T7A HMI. Adding extra HMI (one or more) is not a problem at all. Periodically, we do it on customers demand. You only, have to tick option "OPC UA Server" in the project for the main HMI. In the project for other HMI, You have to add "OPC Client" as controller instead of the main PLC. All HMI to be connected with network cable through Ethernet. Note, that PLC is not affected. It means any PLC can be used. Beijer guys told, that these HMI are much better than their older E1000. A couple years ago our managers decided to migrate to Mitsubishi GOT panels, but recently decided to return back to Beijer. They offer a lot of advanced options to use and really good.

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I posted this topic 4 years ago and they shelved the idea of an extra HMI so I finished the project.

They had used a E1101 touch screen.

The operatives had complained a lot about having to walk across the site to use the dosing system in that time

Recently they found another E1101 on ebay and asked me to install it as a mimic HMI 

I ran an ethernet cable between the two, changing it to a crossover cable, put the copied program from hmi1 into HMI2 and thought we would be good.

err no.

What a faff with poor help files.

Of course I eventually managed after reading and re-reading the help files.

I got them to talk after realising that HMI2 should have its address changed by using a dip switch.

But still there was no data coming through

Then I had to remove the plc from hmi2 peripherals

and then (eventually) realising I had to change the BDPT station for everything in the program on hmi2.

I spent more time reading through unconnected help files than working.

 

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Ron_S, it's nothing. I'm sitting at work for a month and a half, which, if Mitsubishi knew how to prepare properly a technical documentation, could be done in two weeks.

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Oh exactly Inntelle.

I went through the help files and did a check list....... yep done that....yep that's as it should be...why no connection.

No where did it tell you to change the IP address by using a dip switch and rebooting. It allows you to in the program but not in reality

Every step was an hours reading and changing small parts in the HMI.

And i'll probably never have to do it again with the E1000's as they are now obsolete. 

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Posted (edited)

I spent for a one, A ONE WEEK, just to translate a program from L02CPU to FX5. No, its programmer did not use instructions that is supported by L02CPU, but does not supported by FX5... it's just impossibility to convert the old project to a new. It's a lack of software compatibility from the bottom to up. It's a big bullshit. A very stupid management, hired blunt performers.

Edited by Inntele
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Keep in mind that E-terminals were not a Mitsubishi product, so you cannot blame Mitsubishi for the poor documentation.  It's Beijers that can't write a manual.  I hated working with them too, buggy drivers and confused software.  But when Mitsubishi Europe first made that relationship, the GOT series was about useless.  Japan never had a thing to do with the E-Series, that was a Europe product that also made its way into the North American market.  Now GOT is a far more robust product.

And as for L02 to FX5, you need to understand that Mitsubishi has two PLC lines.  The rack type products (L and Q and the old A Series) comes from one factory (Nagoya) and always has.  The FX line has always come from Himeji.  2 different divisions, and there have always been differences and no conversion between those.  This isn't a new thing.  It's like the differences in parts between a Chevy Silverado and a GMC Sierra.  They look the same but are slightly different.

I'm not defending anything, just trying to share more information.

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