How to find a first job as a controls engineer

[Euler 0]

Hello everyone, I just registered to this website and found it really hard to search in the archive of old threads so excuse me if I'm re-posting something that was probably discussed before. I would really appreciate it if someone gives me an url for something similar or for any advice. I have a bachelores and a masters in electrical and computer engineering from another country that are totally equivalent to American degrees (documents and EIT license) with a relatively high GPA. I am a professional programmer of microcontrollers in assembly and C and went in math all the way in school and taught digital and microprocessor design and control systems and programmed AB PLCs overseas. It's my 2nd year in the US but I'm about to become a citizen for serving in the US army in war zones (I received my green card upon arrival). I was first looking for embedded system design jobs and after wasting so much time researching I found that most of the engineering jobs in that field were exported to Asia (China, India, ...) so I started looking for the much easier PLC and HMI programming jobs ("easier", for me, because I have a very strong programming aptitude and experience). I applied to literally thousands of jobs but nothing worked. My weak point is the lack of networking and social and professional connections. I came across a couple of funny employers who tried to take advantage of me thinking that I'm a foreigner (my looks and English are very similar to Americans!!) but I couldn't get an interview with a real employer because they all require many years of "US documented" experience. I was giving up recently when a recruiter got me an interview in a small-medium company here in NJ. The interview was about 5 hours of all kinds of tests that I scored real high (especially the "programming aptitude" test) but I couldn't remember the details of setting up a ladder program good at one of the phases of the interview (it was with a young engineer who had a laptop with RSlogix 5000 ready for me). The overall interview went really well but then they had to put the position on hold because they had problems with some of their clients (that's what the recruiter told me, I didn't fully believe in that). Anyway, I came home and bought a book that is titled "Automating Manufacturing Systems with PLCs" which is the best I have ever known for engineers because schools don't teach PLC programming. It's a real thick and big book that I studied all in like a month. Now I feel that I can be a very good programmer. I have a few puzzling questions: 1. How do PLC programmers and controls engineers get their first jobs in the field if all the jobs require at least 3 years of experience?? Do they go to the moon to do some PLC projects and gain experience? 2. Real universities in this country (and they are the best in the world) don't offer PLC programming or SCADA and HMI courses to augment a resume. There are probably hundreds of websites/videos/ small vocational schools...etc. that train (including Rockwell Automation themselves). Does any of that help in landing the first job in the field? 3. did members of this forum who have jobs now, and probably for a long time, as PLC programmers or controls engineers, start right out of engineering schools or they started different jobs that led to this or started as industrial electricians somehow, or it was just luck and nicer economy? I am so in need of help because I am almost starving doing lower than minimum wage funny jobs and it's a total waste. Any advice will be very much appreciated. Note: I am applying to jobs in all states and on all websites and trying to get engineers through LinkedIN to answer the same questions and give me advice. Hopefully, starting a discussion here may help many engineers like me.

[M1923 0]

I got my first job as a controls engineer throughed my classmate .It's a small private company, the wage is low , staff usually works overtime. I got my diploma from a normal college, and this is my experience. Maybe US is a diffrent world from my country.Good luck to you!

[Euler 0]

Thank you Mr. M1923 for sharing your first job story. The thing is, you probably lived most of your life in your country, went to school, started working, had professors, colleagues, family, friends, ...etc., and that is a huge networking resource. I thought about doing another masters degree or a PhD (no one needs a doctorate degree in engineering unless you wanna chase a really slim chance of getting an academic position, only if you graduated from places like MIT or Carnegie Mellon or Cal Tech) just to get that but everybody around me laughed and said it's not worth it.

[JRoss 84]

I sort of lucked into it. Someone I knew in college tapped me for a job at the automation distributor he worked for. I worked in tech support and got to learn all the different technologies as well as building a network. Then when I decided to move into an integrator position I had applicable experience as well as the network. Granted, I did have the "network" of one - my acquaintance from college - when I started. I'm sure there are lots of stories out there, but some common ways of gaining the real-world experience in PLCs that most control firms are looking for are: 1. Find a large controls house that likes to hire recent grads and train them. It makes more economic sense for them, since they can pay entry-level salaries and let new hires do grunt work until they prove themselves. Smaller firms generally need people ready to go out of the gate. One example in my area is Avanceon in Exton, PA, though I don't know if they're hiring currently. 2. Find a job as a maintenance engineer at a plant. A lot of maintenance positions are mechanical and very hands-on, but some plants are big enough and have enough PLCs to have positions that are more programming oriented. One plant I've worked at called the position "instrumentation", and it also involved hands-on work with anything electrical (valves, level sensors, networks, etc.). 3. Get a job in a related field and slide in sideways once you have a foot in the door. There's an OEM I've done work for that has machines with microprocessors running C code, as well as PLCs. There may be others like that where you could get a job doing what you know, then move into the PLC side if a opportunity arises.

[Euler 0]

Thank you JRoss, I really appreciate your thoughtful advice. It looks like I have something wrong with my way of thinking because what you're saying (which I totally agree with) is that it always starts somewhere around the eventual career as a "controls engineer" in a firm or a company that doesn't produce anything (like food or other products) but engineering solutions to producers. I had a little bit of experience interacting with both parties. There are engineers/technicians in a factory and they usually hold leading positions but don't really do much, and when there is a serious development or maintenance project in their factory, they hire someone from the other, totally engineering, party (different entities bid on it) and the more "advanced" engineers come to do magic on a contract basis. The wrong thing that was always in my mind was that the "magicians", which is what I'm trying to be, get hired right after school and the employers grant them all kinds of training in things like ladder logic, HMI, IP configuration tools, ...etc, which may take years. I think that, that's why the people I was interviewed by were kind of hesitant (or that was at least how I felt) because it's a huge risk to hire whoever comes as a "magician". I remember what the main interviewer said when he handed me a thick folder of papers as a two-hour programming aptitude test, he said "this test is not going to affect your chances but who ever does good in this test end up as a very good asset to our company!". Now, I think I should adjust my applications a little and look for things that may lead to what I'm looking for like "instrumentation engineer", or "electro-mechanical technician" that I've seen a lot and didn't understand much but now I know that they are probably transitional positions that lead to the experienced controls engineer. BTW, what is a "controls house" or "OEM". We're not very far apart geographically and even though I'm at apoint where I don't mind relocating anywhere even if it's North Dakota, but if you come across some of those large controls houses, then I'd appreciate having their names here (PA, tri-state area, and anywhere else). Edited 17 Jun 2013 by Euler

[JRoss 84]

By "controls house" I mean systems integrator. A company that designs and implements control solutions in plants. Some of the larger ones do employ a lot of programmers, and that may be what you want to look into. I'd suggest joining a couple of the controls groups on LinkedIn. If you're willing to relocate, I've seen a number of job postings in those groups that may interest you. An "OEM" is a original equipment manufacturer. It's actually kind of a nebulous term as any company that assembles machines or equipment can be an OEM. For example, Dell is an OEM of computers. What I mean by it is a company that builds automated systems, from systems integrator that builds one-off machines to a company (like the one I'm thinking of) that builds dozens to hundreds of the same machine each year.

[BobLfoot 301]

You've got a lot of good advise and I'll go a few steps farther and borrow from my personal experience. 1. Get Working, somewhere anywhere. IF it is flipping burgers, thats ok. Most employers would rather hire someone who has proved they can work than an educated idiot who never held a joib. Obviously this isn't you as you've worked with Uncle Sams Army. 2. FInd a palce to get your foot in the door. IT may mean starting a a near minimum wage line laborer to get your union card and meet the maintenance an engineering folks and have one of them mentor you into Maintenance / Engineering. I've work for 2 Fortune 500 firms in my life and both preferred to hire from within than go outside when they could. 3. In 5 to 10 years you can take the experiences you get and parley them into that "ideal job" we all dream about. Sincerely, Bob Lightfoot

[GT6Steve 4]

I started just as Mr Ross outlines above. I hired into a plant as a maintenance electrician and evolved into instrumentation slowly shedding the floor level maintenance duties as PLC's and Scada's consumed more of my time. From your mini resume here it sounds like you'd be useful to an integrator more so than a plant electrician. That's just a guess of course. Good Luck with your search, we had a tough time finding good people at that plant.

[Euler 0]

Thank you Mr. Lightfoot. This is a great place you got here. 1. I didn't only work for Uncle Sam's Army, I started with minimum wage at a retail store for a few months where I was selling in an electrical department, then taught full time in a very low level trade schools teaching folks who want to become electrician helpers the highest end of that (a little bit of electronics and PLCs and NEC) in addition to subteaching in public schools, delivering food for restaurants, helping entrepreneurs build electronic circuits using microcontrollers and arduino boards in very low paid contracts, helped a construction contractor build play sets all over the tri-state area for a barely bills-paying income. It's just that I have never been in touch with engineers and I'm not 25 and the years fly when you're having fun, so I was thinking of seeking advice on an organized attack to the field to try to get in. 2. Can you give me some names of companies (hopefully in my area), and I'm willing to start as the company's shoe shine, if some shoes are for insider engineers. By the way, when I apply for jobs at very low level, they usually think I'm overqualified and that I 'd leave with the first chance of a real thing. The dilemma is high academic achievement and zero experience in this country even though I've done it all for many years somewhere else. 3. 5-10 years is too much for my age (late 30's), and I think that there is no dream job but it's just that it's extremely hard to put everyone where they belong here. For example, I learned Visual C++ API programming by myself is a couple of weeks from scratch and built a professional class CNC machine GUI that looks like a combination of AutoCAD and a G-code editor for my masters project while there were bombs blowing up everything right outside of the campus. It's what you can do and many years is a little exaggerated for my case. It was only bad luck that I got stuck in a war zone for so many years. I wish I was born here where people don't appreciate much having had normal lives where they do 5 years here and 5 there and by the time they get to my age, they are pretty much established depending on their capabilities and hard work. Thank you again

[Euler 0]

Thank you JRoss for the simple and detailed explanations. I just started taking LinkedIn seriously a couple of months ago. It was great. I joined many groups but I'm still trying to get the most out of it. Do you know a place or a website where I can get a list of the large control houses in my area or coast-to-coast? Do you have specific names in mind? and finally, can you please, give me the exact groups in LinkedIn that you think I should pay more attention to? I am trying to contact the IEEE consultants in North Jersey. I think that they have some good info and resources.

[DanW 41]

Good luck with IEEE. I might have missed the connection, but I've found that IEEE is not a big in the systems integration world. PLC manufacturers employ engineers who might belong to IEEE, but I'm not sure IEEE offers much to automation guys. Linkedin just hid its "groups" under "interests" on the navigation bar. Some of the automation groups are Automation & Control Engineering Industrial Automation and Controls Network Automation Automation Engineers MCAA Measurement Control and Automation Association PLC / SCADA / MES Worldwide Community PLC SCADA Engineer Process Control technology-specific groups Industrial Wireless Level Measurement Vendor-specific groups like DeltaV (Emerson's DCS)

[DanW 41]

Pennsylvania was the hub of process instrumentation from WWII through the 1990's. Moore Products (now Siemens) was/is in Springhouse PA. Honeywell (what's left of them) is in Fort Washington, PA. Red Lion Controls (HMI's, comm boxes, panel meters, a modular control system) is in York, PA. Phoenix Contact is in Middletown, PA. Brooks Instruments (mass flow meters) is in Hatfield, PA Kobold is in the Pittsburgh area, but I think they import/private label most of their stuff. The analytical instrument field, IR/UV spectrophotomers, mass spectrometers, chromatographs, etc. all use embedded processing. They all exhibit at the Pittsburgh Conference, which is never in Pittsburgh.

[Euler 0]

Thanks a lot DanW. This is exactly what I'm looking for. I just joined (or tried) all of these groups and trying to look into what they've got. For the IEEE, one of the main members, who's a PE, has a title that goes "Automation and system Integration". I will only contact him.

[Euler 0]

Thank you DanW, I will go to their websites and try to contact them or ask for "informational interviews". This is great because I can drive a few hours to get to all of those places. Any names in north Jersey?

[Euler 0]

I joined all the control groups on LinkedIn and applied to all the jobs posted in these groups. Tried the companies above, had some things to apply to, but some don't have anything anywhere. At least I know my target now. I just met an old super-handy small business owner who makes different kinds of lab instruments and he started giving me electronic design jobs on a contract basis to revolutionize his industries with microcontrollers. It works for me as a temporary solution. Thank you nice people for everyword of advice and encouragement.

[Guest]

it's easy to miss a notification of a Personal Message – or maybe you've already read mine and just decided to simply ignore it – but I have some free friendly suggestions that might help you meet the right people ... I'm swamped with work right now – so no time to type it all up – but I'd be happy to talk with you by phone for a few minutes ...

[Euler 0]

I'm so sorry, it's just that I'm so new to the forum and website that I didn't notice the message. I'm going for it right now. thank you so much.

[Euler 0]

hello nice people in the control world. I just missed another job. the employer was showing interest and I thought I did land the job as a controls "technician" when they called to say that they put it on hold. the recruiter told me that it was all because of the economy and now for the new stupid health care thing. I'm so frustrated that I think that I'm going to take a humiliating teaching job in Dubai.