RobertL

New Laptop for PLC's and control works

19 posts in this topic

Hi everybody, I'm in the process of replacing my old laptop and I would like some advice on what to buy. I need a good laptop for PLC's and control works. I would appreciate any help.

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I thought that I answered this. Apparently not. I've got a couple of laptops that I've used over the years and still use. My go to laptop is my Panasonic Toughbook CF-30. It's got a sealed / back lit keyboard (which makes it easy to see at night), the display is easily seen in broad daylight, it comes with a serial port, and the case is all but bullet proof. I don't do a lot of HMI configuration on it due to the small screen but for troubleshooting and field work it's the best laptop that I have.

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Robert, You caught me at a good time as I recently replaced my laptop. I went with a MacPro. I actually saw some posts on this forum that made me go in that direction. When I first saw people posting about Macs I thought they were crazy. The Mac world has always been one that has been unobtainable for us controls guys. With the advent of the Macs going to the Intel type processors its a whole new world. You have to use VMware or similar software to run a virtual windows machine or duel boot. I have been using the VMware option for months now with all the rockwell plc programming products without any problems. Its faster than my old machine and I can use OSX for most other things. I have been using the Ignition SCADA product by Inductive automation and I can run it natively in the Mac. Add to all that the fact that it is a fantastically designed machine (makes my old dell look like a clunker) and its a real winner. I really like the fact I can just close the laptop and open it later to come back to my work without any problems and without using a lot of battery.

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Helpful Tip: If you happen to buy a new laptop without a built in serial port (which is the case for almost all laptops now), I recommend buying a USB to serial adapter to maintain serial (rs232) connectivity to PLCs and other devices. I have used several adapters in the past (belkin, keyspan, staples, instaCOM), but the one that has been bulletproof so far (works with any Windows OS and RSLinx DF1 driver) is IO Gear's GUC232A. The thing is only $30 and I always have one in my laptop bag. The problem with the other adapters that I tried in the past is the inability to maintain connection on certain baud rates. Which is unacceptable in an industrial environment! Especially while doing firm-ware updates. I also run a copy of VMWare on my new Windows 7 laptop. However, I only use it to communicate to ControlLogix PLCs (with versions 12 and below) and to develop, transfer and test Factory View applications. Other than that, I have been able to run every other Rockwell Automation piece of software on Windows 7, even RSLogix 5 and 500!! I did have to give up my pcmk card because it crashes windows as soon as I insert it on the pcmcia slot :( Let me know if this helped! or if you have any other questions. Julio Velasco Controls Engineer

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I have a new Dell Latitude that has a serial port and a PCMCIA slot for the PCMK card. It has an I5 processor, nice big screen, and Win7 32 bit. I have no issues running RSLogix 5, 500, or 5000, RSNetworx for Devicenet, RSLinx Classic and FactoryTalk View Studio. I've had some minor issues with FactoryTalk Activation manager (I need to refresh the Activations everytime I start the laptop) and PanelBuilder32 won't allow the file to open by double clicking on the file, you must browse to it. The only other issue I've had with Rockwell is that if I had my IPhone plugged up to the laptop while comunicating to a processor the computer will lock up at somepoint. The model I have I think has been dicontinued but try contacting Dell to find out what they have.

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PvillePiper, The I-phone is your problem... j/k All jokes aside.. how and where did you get the Windows 7 drivers for your PCMK card??? Please let me know.. I would love to keep my card. (Maybe its compatible with Windows 7 32bit only? I have a 64 bit and it crashes the laptop as soon as I plug it in ) Thanks in advance. -Julio Velasco Edited by Digita7Voic3

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Of course it's the Iphone! Actually, I now have my old 6.5 winmoble phone as my Iphone bit the dust and I have no problem with this. Any way, I don't remember doing anything special with the PCMK, but, yes I believe it is only compatable with 32 bit OS. I think it was just plug and play. We have 4 laptops with Win7 (3 Dells and a Systemax) and we have had no issues. A quick look at the AB Knowledge Base seems like some computers don't like them. Imagine that... Something that doesn't like an AB product. I have see Anti-Vuirus software go balistic over RSLinx...

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I would like to resurrect this old thread to get current input.  My old machine is struggling with the Rockwell toolkit.  What new laptops are working well for you guys and do you have to run a VM?

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A VirtualMachine is highly suggested.  Rockwell/Allen-Bradley is providing their field engineers with virtualized machines.  If you consider the number of hours to configure every new laptop just to get it to perform like the last laptop, then virtualizing your PC and replicating for a new install is the way to go.

And being as some Rockwell/Allen-Bradley products do not perform on latest operating systems, virtualizing your PC is the way to go.

The biggest struggles with latest operating systems and virtualized PCs, in my opinion...(1) selecting a PC platform that affords to virtualizing [hyper-threading & quad-core, minimum], (2) port sharing [USB requires R&D testing and diligence].  

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Thank you for the response. 

I do understand the time suck that is configuring a new laptop, but I have never used the virtual machine method before.  I tried it on my current laptop which is more than capable of handling all the requirements, but I have not had too much luck making everything work smoothly.  I can get the VM running, but it seems sluggish and I was hoping for a better feel to it.  I have not taken the chance on installing all the rockwell software on it yet as I have a new toolkit package and was waiting to get a well operating machine before installation.

I was thinking about getting a laptop with Windows 10 Pro and using the retrograde rights to load Windows 7 on it in hopes that the native platform might be smoother.   Thoughts?

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Go with a VM. It's incredibly useful, in more ways than one. First, build a clean Windows (7 most likely) VM, then save a backup of it. Next use that clean VM and install all your required AB/Rockwell software. Save a backup of it in that clean, fresh state. Next, do the same with whatever other type of machine you may be working on (Siemens, whatever). Keep a separate backup of each VM setup you build.

 

I keep a bunch of "purpose built" VMs for whatever I may be working on, so each Windows setup is not loaded down and bloated with millions of installs. Also, whenever one of the Windows environments starts to slow down and feel sluggish (as Windows in prone to do), or if Rockwell starts spitting up some weird errors (as it is prone to do), I just throw out the VM and go back to the backup I saved of the clean setup. Total time to refresh your development environment, 5 minutes.

The last benefit of keeping everything on VMs is the portability. I can buy a brand new laptop and be ready for site in 15 minutes (total number of steps required: Install VMWare Workstation, then copy my VM backups onto the new computer)

It's definitely worth the additional complication factor. Learn VMs and use em!

Edited by MrAutomation

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3 minutes ago, MrAutomation said:

Go with a VM. It's incredibly useful, in more ways than one. First, build a clean Windows (7 most likely) VM, then save a backup of it. Next use that clean VM and install all your required AB/Rockwell software. Save a backup of it in that clean, fresh state. Next, do the same with whatever other type of machine you may be working on (Siemens, whatever). Keep a separate backup of each VM setup you build.

 

I keep a bunch of "purpose built" VMs for whatever I may be working on, so each Windows setup is not loaded down and bloated with millions of installs. Also, whenever one of the Windows environments starts to slow down and feel sluggish (as Windows in prone to do), or if Rockwell starts spitting up some weird errors (as it is prone to do), I just throw out the VM and go back to the backup I saved of the clean setup. Total time to refresh your development environment, 5 minutes.

The last benefit of keeping everything on VMs is the portability. I can buy a brand new laptop and be ready for site in 15 minutes (total number of steps required: Install VMWare Workstation, then copy my VM backups onto the new computer)

It's definitely worth the additional complication factor. Learn VMs and use em!

You are the second person to suggest VMWare.  I have been using Oracle VM VirtualBox.  I am currently having trouble getting my USB ports to behave properly.  They don't like to share between the host and VM.  Is VMWare free?

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VMWare is the way to go.  It is not free, but Workstation Pro is about $275.

I have multiple images to support different control vendors software - Rockwell, Siemens, Automation Direct, Omron, etc...

Minor demonstration of it's power - I had three different images open and running.  The first was online via VPN to a Siemens based robotic cell to help troubleshoot an issue.  The second was online with an Omron system during testing.  The third was open with Rockwell offline while my machine was being built and writing code. 

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We use VMWare Workstation Player which was about $150/seat. It's all we needed to set up new VMs and manage their networking enough to get us running. We've had very good luck with it. It's a necessity for us with the number of different software versions we need to support that don't coexist (newer versions replace older ones, 32-bit software on 64-bit machines, etc.)

 

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I've recently been put in the position of needing a new field laptop.  Specifically I'm looking for a laptop with easy accessible HDD ports/compartments - Reason secondary HD for VM instances of Rockwell Software that can be removed and USB tethered to a desktop system for use.  My current laptop is built like a phone and you have to literally peel off the back off of the thing every time you want to change anything.  I know laptops are becoming disposable items and PC manufactures are building them more for single use and throw away vs. upgrade and easy access to components.

I also like a bigger screen since I need to support graphics on it, in addition to PLCs.  More than 2 usb ports would be awesome too...

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I will strongly advise going the VM route no matter what base OS you use.  I have like the Dell Laptops for years, but also had good luck with HP.  I've not tried a MacBook. but given how I've come to love my IPhone I might venture back there as well on my next acquisition.

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I mention the VM, because its an unfortunate requirement for Allen Bradley graphics.  Each new version of Factory Talk/RsView doesn't play with other versions.  So you basically need a new OS/system for each version...At this point 12.  So other than having 12 different laptops, I'm thinking easy changed out HDD with VMware on them is the way to go.

Im just having problem finding a new Laptop that isn't extremely hard to open, or have accessible HDD panels.

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I'm using an HP zBook. It came with the OS installed on an internal SSD of some kind. The 2.5" HDD bay was unused. I was able to add a SSD to it easily. It's easy to remove the bottom cover of the laptop and the drive comes out with a few screws. The old Dell I used to use was good too. The bottom cover came off with a couple screws and the drive slid out the side after removing another small screw to unlock the latch.

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We've used HP Elitebook Laptops , replaced the bullt in CD/DVD tray with an SSD Tray and use an USB DVD Drive when needed.

Multiple VM's can reside on a 1TB SSD when installed in the DVD Tray location.

And you're not opening the case voiding any warranty.

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