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Macgyver BR

Medoc Finishes Version

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What???

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I believe that version 2.3 was the last released version of Meslec Medoc. Isn't that right? Maybe that was what was meant by the first post. I am not sure. I really don't miss that software anyhow. I was happier upgrading to the GPPWin and GX Developer.

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Yes, version 2.3. You affirms that the package 2.3 and an upgrade!? Where do I find a link and the previous package for install to version 2.3 or you have.

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Sorry chaps but 2.3 wasn't the last version release, I'm running version 2.40a with 2 service packs installed. Also running the GX Developer (some nice features but not sure yet as to the lesser evil).

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Tron, can you please specify whether the 2 service packs mentioned are the part of Medoc 2.40a or something obtained separately? And what is the difference with 2.30? Where the 2.40a can be found? I am still using Medoc while posessing GPPWin and GX Developer. It may be used with FX1S and FX1N- just specify the PLC type in the project as FX0S or FX2N correspondingly. IMHO, the Medoc shines in a PLC softwares line. I have what to compare to: over 10 years I am using DOS and Windows softwares for Mitsubishi, Omron, AB, Aromat, Siemens.

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I've been told by my supplier that there is no 2.4 version but I keep hearing references to it in forums such as these. I still use Medoc V2.3 and would kill for an update. I own a couple of the windows packages including GX but don't care for them. Anyone out there care to tell me how I can get a hold of 2.4??? Pretty Please? Jim

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ewe.....Medoc...I feel your pain...I can't stand that stuff. :wacko:

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Pain? Pain is using GX or absolutely anything that Mitsubishi ever offered except Medoc. I've tried them all. Medoc is dos. That makes it rather dated but it really is a great program. GX is an embarassment. Its the reason I refuse to use FX1's (Medoc 2.3 won't handle an FX1). You couldn't pay me enough to use GX. In fact, if a customer insisted on GX, I'd turn down the contract. Bottom line is this: Beijer knows how to make good hardware AND good software. Mitsi knows how to make good hardware. Whoever wrote GX (and all the other windows offerings from Mitsi) knows how to.... ummmm make hotdogs? (maybe?) I'd like to have Medoc 2.4 to tide me over until my own software is ready for prime time (can't find time to work on it). Jim

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Today, I saw on a distributors internal network a directory called MEDOC 3.1 I will check tomorrow if I was not dreaming and post back.

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I have heard this argument time and time again that old MEDOC is better than GX or GPP. I have used all 3 and use GX all the time now. I think it must be an allergy to using the mouse or something. In GX you can set it up almost identical to MEDOC as well as the same key-strokes you can even have a blue screen with white ladder if you wish. But medoc does not cover the newer CPU's. I know you can kid it with certain FX models but The newer CPU's have more internal bits and data registers etc and the configuration is wrong with medoc. The first good word processing software was wordperfect. That was a blue screen and keystrokes - secrataries used it all the time and knew all the F keys to press but do you see it being used today? no!. Its time to move on and see the benefits of the new software. I would say that I am more productive with GX than medoc because I took time to get used to and learn it.

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Okay, perhaps its just a personal thing but my feelings are: Medoc, like a lot of Dos programs has a bit of a learning curve because you need to learn the shortcuts, etc. And not being a standard Windows program, you need to learn IT. But, once you get the hang of it, it makes a fair amount of sense. GX on the other hand, does not have a proper text editor and it does not offer proper viewing of your name list as a whole nor does it display it properly in the program. Its a poorly (very poorly) written program. On the other hand, if you program in ladder, I suppose it does the trick. I encourage everyone to use text rather than ladder, however. Ladder is good for learning how to program and its good for checking complex boolean. I don't believe its the proper format for writing good code in. Medoc 3.2 is compatible with all of Mitsi's current models except the FX1 and is missing only the commands LDP and LDF. It will do the inline comare instructions. You seem to think I'm simply reluctant to switch to Windows. I'm a Windows programmer. I write my own HMI's in windows. I just don't like GX. If it works for you, I can't argue with that. Use what works for you. :) Jim

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Ok Jim, you are a ‘windows programmer’ and you prefer and encourage everyone to write code in text rather than ladder. That sounds a little elitist to me because I would take bets that only a very small minority do it that way. Maybe you are forgetting what plc’s were first invented for – relay replacement. Your average electrician that could design systems using relays timers and counters could very easily adapt to ladder programming. Once he was comfortable with that, he could then move onto the higher instructions. If this same electrician had been shown ‘list’ or text programming before ladder programming he would have run a mile and given up before he started. Don’t forget – this section of the forum is exclusive to Mitsubishi where ladder programming is prevalent and if you don’t think that it is conducive to writing good code then I think you are wrong. Good code is written by good programmers not the style they choose to use. I have used many varieties of plc’s and software and a lot of them are clunky and hard to grasp, Mitsubishi ladder programming has always flowed easily for me and I am a fan of GX. And one final point seeing how this topic has changed slightly from the original question. Medoc has no capability of downloading comments into the plc whereas Gpp and GX does (memory permitting) This is sometimes an absolute godsend.

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I'm not coming down on anyone for their preferences. That's the trouble with written posts like these; its hard to ascertain the writer's "tone". I'm not trying to be elitest or nasty. I started out working with relays and I'm still a huge fan of ladder drawings for showing the physical wiring on machines. I'm not against the use of ladder for beginners. I think its great for teaching and it helps people move from relays to plcs. I still use it daily to check complex boolean in my programs. The reason people program in ladder is because the manufacturers encourage it. Electricians are used to ladder and are less prone to frustration with a plc if they stick with ladder. Its easier to sell plc's that way. But the truth is, its a terrible format for long, complex programs. Its hard to convince people but once you get comfortable with text programming, you'll never go back to ladder. And by the way, I agree with your inference that comments are very important. But your comment that Medoc doesn't allow comment transfer is not correct. Plc's are no longer just a way of replacing relays (if they ever were). They are capable of very complex tasks and to suggest that the language doesn't matter is short-sighted. As cool as relays are, when a machine becomes complex, relays are a horrible mess that's impossible to troubleshoot properly. Putting the same mess inside of a plc doesn't make it better. Trust me, if you want your code to blossom, if you want it to make sense and be safe, you'll start writing in text mode.

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Wow, an artist! You have to be one in order to put so many silly concept in one sentence.

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So, writing code that's maintainable and doesn't kill people is silly?? I don't know, they seem like pretty important concepts to me.

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If this is so true, how do you get the commemt only page? With MEDOC I comment well, and to navigate I hotkey to comments only, highlight a comment in the area I want to goto, hotkey back and I'm there. I have never found a good way to navigate the windows stuff. The searches are far more cumbersome.

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Yeah, that's a very powerful feature, DesertDog... one of my favourites. I spoke with my rep yesterday and she swears up and down that there is no version of Medoc beyond v2.3. As an aside, she also says that Medoc was not written by Beijer. She's not sure who did write it... she just knows it wasn't them. I'm not sure why but I'd always thought that they had written it. Does anyone know who did write it? Jim

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Heres a snip from Beijers web site Although locally developed systems dominated the Swedish market in the early 1980s, Beijer Electronics opted for the novel concept of combining high-quality agency products with proprietary development. Mitsubishi Electric's control systems, whose compact, integrated units constituted a new market philosophy, formed Beijer Electronics' foundation. The collaboration with this corporation also meant Beijer Electronics undertaking a series of major development assignments, which included the development of the MEDOC programming tool in the mid-1980s, a product that, until recently, was used for the installation of all Mitsubishi Electric's control systems worldwide. http://www.beijer.se/english/group/history/history.htm

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I am surprised for a simple topic what I started , remain active at more than a ano.Very good, as was beyond of the argument , as connoisseur discussions & respect the opinions. Satisfied with the argument developed , really I find what the MEDOC that's a program effective , the down side out-of-date. Regarding FX WIN , there was no neither quote , a few rebellion the I use you gave software? I also , I find what the software GPP WIN & GX, (GX IEC no I know , I should like know ) awkward & confusing , isn't all-around about to program , really the conduction you gave software was not with eyes of programmers realities of PLC's. Except , applications long the the resources you add allow a , helps on organization , beyond of the slowly simulation off-line Even so , the my support befall above the FX WIN , the qual adversely the BUGs with dominant , principally on writing & conversion of LADDER<->STL. When , the style of program , questioning before.A opinion , what all são optimism a good programmer , owes know like utilizing each one ( text, STL, LADDER , GRACFET... ) principally know I use from the instructions , the selection from language depends of the clear ,machine or process sues it type , & extension of the program. The posts before , I have information what the PLC Mitsubishi was originated from Panasonic , anybody the reaffirm or back question? PS: Menbers Admin ,Moderators let's go to open one new seccion of affairs across the board , for everyone participate in independent of the manufacturer. We are willing on the subject of técniq stiles of program , solutions, after all goods affairs. Agreed it Sign below!!!

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I think its a great idea, Macgyver. I'd like to see 2 additional forums added. One for general, non-manufacturer-specific topics and a non-technical forum where people could discuss the surrounding issues like business, marketing, trends, etc. As for the rumour of Panasonic starting the Mitsi line... never heard that one. If I recall correctly, the microprocessor in the Mitsubishi Alpha series is a Hitachi (which is odd considering that Mitsubishi is mega-huge in the processor business). I forget what they use in the FX line but it may be Hitachi too. Hitachi makes very fast, simple, inexpensive processors whereas Mitsi's are fairly complex and pricey. I suspect there are many arrangements between them and several other companies. Jim

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I have medoc,gppa,gx developer you name it on my labtop. Our shop is full of mitsubishis. I use GX all the time and love it. I only use the medoc when i have to. But thats a preference i like the windows based software.

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how about someone posting where it might be possible to download one of the older versions or gx developer. use omron, but curious.

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