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justwhy2003

Ethernet communications with FX1n

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Im trying to interface Citect 7.1 with a FX1n via FX2n-ENET-ADP. In my Citect comms set up wizard there is no option for Mitsubishi general Fx Ethernet (as there is for FX3 which I presume would be an easier setup). I was then planning to use MX comp but i need version 3.08J or later, I only have 3.02C. Q1 - Should I be able to extract the data from the PLC via Modbus Ethernet driver? Ive never used Modbus before, is there a tutorial on how this might work in terms of addressing etc? Q2 - Can I upgrade my MX comp or do I need to purchase a new one? Thanks Justin

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FX PLCs do not talk Modbus Ethernet, not even the FX3U. I think you need to purchase new MX Component, as that version is several years old. Current is 3.13. You could also consider MX OPC Server, and then have Citect communicate with the OPC server. MX Component is designed for people writing their own interface in Visual C++ or Visual Basic.

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Thanks Ill look into getting the latest Mx Component. Justin

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Hi Justin I have done an application with 3 FX1N's and Citect using MX OPC over ethernet. The FX2N Ethernet module is quite limited but does support OPC client functionality. Very easy to set up the OPC and FX1N Regards Automaton

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Automaton The job was just to program the PLC for a client but they requested in the spec that the PLC be compatible with Citect for future interface (of presenting Tags using OPC) via an ethernet port. I have allowed for the ethernet port and worst case scenario could worry about the interface with Citect when the need arises, maybe even someone else will be making this connection. I would however like to achieve communication while the PLC is still in my workshop as it is easier to experiment here. Have been quoted £300 for latest version of MX Component which I have found a good package to use in the past and am sure I can make progress with it but it is a bit expensive just to put my mind at rest. Is there OPC software available for quite cheap that would let me have a play around with the ethernet comms? Justin

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Hi Justin I used MX OPC but that costs a bit more than £300. You could look at other OPC manufacturers such as Keptware, there might even be some free open source OPC servers out there on the web. I use MX Component 3.12 for VB and plc applications but normally via serial interfaces, If you select Ethernet on the pc side of the wizard there is no FX option in the host side only Q cpu's(maybe that is included in version 3.13) Talk to the Mitsubishi guys in Dublin, they will be able to supply you with a functional demo version of both MX Component and OPC and you can try it before spending any money Regards Automation

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Just so he can find it, it's Kepware, not Keptware. I know they do have an OPC server for Mitsubishi, and I am fairly sure it supports Ethernet to an FX3U, not sure about the old ones... They also offer 2hr free demo downloads. When it first came out, Mitsu offered SerialIP as a solution to convert a serial port to an IP address, this was until their software fully supported the Ethernet option. I know it redirected a COM port to the PLC so you would pick like COM12 in the PC and the standard serial drivers would work. www.kepware.com

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Ok I got MX component 3.13.In the data sheet for the FX2NC-ENET-ADP it says I should be able to connect using MX Component, but I also need FX Configurator-EN. Is this an add on to MX Component? The data sheet shows a dedicated communication setting for the FX2NC-ENET-ADP but i only seem to have "Ethernet Board" as a setting. Do I need FX Configurator-EN to have the appropriate communications option? Where do I get it? Justin

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FX Configurator-EN is only for the FX3U-ENET module. It is not used with the FX2NC-ENET-ADP adapter. As I said before, that device is a serial to Ethernet gateway, and so you might still need Serial-IP or something like it to redirect an IP address to a COM port. Make sure the settings you are making in MX Component are for an FX1N, not an FX3U.

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Ok, Ive made communications with GX developer using the IP address and port I have entered to my PLC. Ill admit, this is a mile stone for me. Not because it was that difficult to do but Ive only reacently started using ethernet communications as part of my monitoring/control systems. If I now had a SCADA system remotely monitored via VNC, and using a cheaper network cable to communicate with the PLC as opposed to a more expensive serial programming cable, I should be able to reprogram the PLC remotely also? In terms of the FX Configurator-EN, I was following the instructions in the FX2NC-ENET-ADP manual. It doesnt mention FX3 PLCs but states that FX Configurator-EN must be installed on the personal computer. Confusing. Im presuming that I should be able to use the Communications setup utility in MX Component as a driver to make a connection withh the PLC and interface the PLC with a SCADA system via a network? I have done this in the past with serial communications, Is this a progression from that? How do I change the settings in MX component to FX1n? Justin Edited by justwhy2003

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Hi Justin I had a quick look at MX Component I think Crossbow is right, you will need a serial to ip address translator. Have a look at http://tibbo.com/downloads/soi.html You can then configure MX Component as a serial connection using the com port defined in Tibbo (com 15 for example). In Tibbo you map com 15 to 10.10.10.1 (your plc ip) Tibbo "tricks" MX Component into thinking that it is connected serially. This would probably work without MXCompont if you configured Citect to use a serial driver. From a ruggedness and reliability perspective I would still recommend OPC. Regards Automaton

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I see what you are saying, its just the instruction manual with the ENET-ADP that is throwing some confusion into the matter. I have down loaded the free Kepware software and am taking a look at it. So just to get the application straight in my head. If I set up a SCADA system to talk to a PLC or a number of PLCs on a network via ethernet communications, unless the SCADA (say Citect) has a dedicated driver for the ethernet connection that say an FX3 might provide, I am going to also require an OPC server with driver to provide the appropriate driver information to the SCADA? Is this going to drastically increase the cost of the SCADA system?

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Hi Justin You have generally 3 ways of connecting a SCADA to a plc. 1.Use driver provided by Scada manufacturer 2.Use OPC server 3. Use DDE (not commonly used nowadays) In Citect you have a lot of drivers included but other manufacturers supply drivers with their products too. The idea with OPC is this; OPC server manages the connection and updating of Tags. For the OPC to connect to a plc it needs a driver. The OPC connects to the plc via the configured driver. Your SCADA is an OPC client, It sends requests to the Server. The server sends the tag information back to the SCADA. The whole idea of OPC is this: Any major manufacturer of SCADA who is OPC compliant can connect to a certified OPC server irrespective of manufacturer ( brave words but this is the theory) This frees up competition in the SCADA market. The catch is you still need the drivers on the OPC server and some manufacturers will charge you for this. I don't think that Mitsubishi drivers are included in Kepware OPC but MX OPC does include the driver for your Ethernet module. Kepware will supply you with a suitable driver for this card. May be worth comparing the price of Kepware OPC + driver as opposed to Mitsubishi MXOPC. Personally the reason why I stick with Citect is because of the wide range of FREE drivers included. Getting back to your application, what is the main goal? FX on Ethernet is not cheap, but do you need it? The main reason for wanting Ethernet between plc and SCADA is quantity of data and speed of response. Unless you have a lot of data/Tags why don't you use the FX3G ( replacement of the FX1N and costs the same)) It has integrated USB if you plc is close to your SCADA this is a very cheap connection < £5 If you need longer distances you can get usb extenders up to 100m, these are around £80 @ 100m We have used them no problem with Citect HMI @300 Tags. Alternatively you can install a F1N 232 or 485 DB module in the FX1N and use this to link to the SCADA. Doing this removes the need for Ethernet hardware and allows you to use Citect integrated drivers. Regards Automaton

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Thanks Automaton, that has helped. I have used Citect for 2 applications to date both using Fx3 but I used serial comms as the PC was beside the PLC. The reason the FX2N-ENET-ADP was included in the system was not for the original function of the PLC which I have programmed but for future connection to an existing Citect SCADA system, the spec has requested an OPC compatible PLC with ethernet connection. The engineer that will make this interface may well have MX OPC or Kepware or some other software with the appropriate driver already and he can possibly deal with that scenario when the time comes. I have programmed the PLC and small HMI and have left it easy for the next stage to change the IP, subnet and gateway of the PLC via the HMI to suit the network requirments. I would have liked for peace of mind to make the connection to Citect while the PLC was still in my office, 1 to see if I could do it 2 the application is bound to come up again in the future 3 to make sure that there is a method for connecting to the SCADA when the time comes. If a job now arose that didnt require ethernet comms I wold probably go the seriel route, unless I could connect direct to the SCADA software via built in driver (im sure there is one in Citect for FX3 ethernet comms). This is purely if there is an extra software cost involved. Until now I havent had the need for speed of data or distance problems to justify using a network but it is good to know that there may be more involved in just plugging in and selecting a driver from the SCADA package. How much would MX OPC set you back? Would I need to purchase a new copy for each application or could I install a copy on each SCADA PC used? Thanks again Justin

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Hi Justin MX OPC is listed at £490 in NI, down south its a lot more expensive!!!! Yes you need it for each installation. Citect does work with FX3U and FX3U Enet module, I have set this up and it works fine. You can also use the FX3G with the FX3U-ENET module. Have a look in the Citect knowledge base, there are a few notes on Citect and Q/FX3 plc's What hmi did you use? If it is E1041 and above or GT15/16 you can bridge between the plc serial port and the ethernet port on the hmi Something to experiment with on a rainy day Regards Automaton

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The HMI is just a GOT1020 LBL for changing timer values, levels etc, it doesnt have an Ethernet port, I will keep that in mind tho as I have a job comming up with a larger HMI. Thanks for the help so far,if nothing else I have a stronger knowledge about what is required for a job requiring ethernet communications. Justin

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