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KidPLC

Need help with Omron programming software

29 posts in this topic

Hi Guys, I normally spend my time in the AB section of the website however I have come up against a CQM1 CPU 43-V1 and I could really use some help. We have a bagging machine with a CQM1 CPU 43-V1 and a PWS 1760-STN Hitech screen display, I have been asked to make some modifications to the operation of the machine however I have not had anything to do with OMRON in my travels. I have only recently started with the company and my predecessor warned me about the disjointed nature of the program that has been developed in the PLC however I need to overcome a few simple hurdles before even getting to the developed program like what software do I use and how do I get online. I have found two software packages Syswin 3.4 and CX-One v2.02 I have also found numberous backup files associated with the Bagging machine. If anyone out there could help me with the following I would really appreciate it:- 1. Which software should I use? Is one better than the other? Any general overview/background info would be great. 2. I intend to do an upload of the existing program, which is the best software package to use to perform this function. 3. I have the following back up files *.cxt, *.opt, *.swp, *.swb and *.ddm. Some appear to be associated with Syswin and some appear to be associated with CX-one which is which? Which is the actual program? 4. Does Omron allow you to go online with an offline program that does not match the online program?? or does it warn you about this? 5. I have attempted to open a *.swp file with CX-One and it seems to want to do a conversion to a *.cxt file? what is it attempting to do here? I would have assumed it would have tried to convert the file to a *.cxp? 6. Is it possible to do a successful compare of a *.swp and *.cxp or should the files be of the same type? 7. I have a CPU 43-V1 with an OCH built in and then a OD212,TC001,TC001, and a ID212. What is the addressing scheme for the cards in the rack?? 8. Also when I open one of the backup programs in CX-one I can't see any I/O configuration? should there be one that identifies what is in the rack? An overview of the controller rack is a feature that I am used to with AB . 9. How can I easily monitor I/O? In an AB I can go to the controller I/O list and the cards in the rack will be listed, I can then look further into each card and monitor the values of I/O for that card. I am in a situation where I think I will have to upload the program then go round the machine and try to identify inputs and outputs then give them meaningful names in the program in order to start to unravel it. I have seen a watch window but that means I have to manually add all the I/O that I want to look at....which is a bit lengthly but I will do it if I have to. 10. Also there is a "Memory" section in the CX-One program with IR, SR, AR, HR, LR, TC and DM memory...what are all these memory types? mmmmmmmm can't really think of any other questions at present however please feel free to offer as much advice as you see fit. I am used to reasonably high level programming with AB software so I am confident I will get my head around the OMRON stuff after a while, unfortunately I am a bit short on time any quick start advice would be a HUGE help. Thanks in advance. Edited by KidPLC

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Hi and welcome to the Omron section. To start with, here are a few downloads that will be useful: W228-E1-7 CQM1-CPM1-CPM2-SRM1 PLC Programming Manual W226-E1-7 Hardware Manual for CQM1 PLC CQM1 Addressing Quickstart The CIF01 is a peripheral to RS232 converter, and good chance the cable you found can get you online. (I don't recognise the 001 as a part number) In CX-Programmer, double click the CPU icon and set network type to Toolbus. Go to settings, and at driver tab match PC COM port and set baud rate to 9600. Try to connect ( PLC > work online). If it gives a comms error, you might need to set CPU dipswitch 5 to ON position (when powered down!). This will load default parameters to the peripheral port AND RS232 port, so good chance the HMI will give a comms error, but this will at least get you connected so you can read the user settings for the peripheral port so you know how to set the connection parameters when the dipswitch is OFF again. If you can get online with DIP 5 ON, open settings (under PLC icon), go to peripheral tab and select Options > Transfer from PLC. Note the displayed settings which you will need to set at the Network type settings when connecting with DIP 5 OFF again. Hope this gets you started, let us know how you go!

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Editing your post while I'm replying, now that's not fair Anyway about your additional questions: See programming manual section 3-1. By the way if you installed CX-Programmer, you will find the operation manual in the start menu programs folder.

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Hi there PdL, Thank you for the warm welcome to the Omron section and also for the fantastic information you have provided it has been invaluable. I appologise for changing my post however I had made some progress in the mean time so I thought some of my questions weren't relevant anymore, you must have wondered what the hell was going on I have a couple of more questions:- 1. I have noticed the @ symbol infront of a couple of the instructions e.g. @spd(64) what function does the @ symbol perform. 2. This morning I contacted my predecessor about the progress he made on deciphering the program and he informs me that I should be wary of data values stored deep in the program...he couldn't elaborate too much because he is not familiar with Omron himself and I don't think he made as much progress as my current employer feels he did. My question is this...if I upload the program does this annex all data values stored in all location of the PLC memory or is there another command to ensure a more comprehensive upload??? Appreciate this assistance PdL. Cheers

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The .ddm file is Syswin file to store DM memory values. This can be imported in Memory component of CX-Programmer. The @ symbol before SPD means that the SPD instruction is called once on the rising edge of conditions on its left. Regards SVN

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Sounds like a pack and seal machine...(forming machine) Sounds like one that is made by a local company in sydney (although it is a bit old) I have seen this exact type of machine and know what is involved. Your predecessor learnt how to bable his way out of the understanding of the plc program and would only be happy with relay logic. Either he was to lazy to learn or did'nt no how to without sounding to harsh. The trick is understanding the instructions and how they utilise the memory.. The CQM1 could do some clever things at the time in the one package. The CPU43 could also take in an encodr input and have high speed pulse output for control of servos etc. Not to mention the Temperature control cards which are the only ones i am aware of on the market. Anyways, if it is a forming machine then you need to understand how it is working to try and understand the logic in the plc. 1. There is probably a encoder giving length feed back ( if so a CTBL instruction would have been set up to initate a high speed interupt 2. The PRV instruction might be in there also to read the count value 3. The ACC and SPD instructions will send the the pulses to the servo (number of pulses, freq and acc rate etc) quite clever actually. Utilise the manuals that pdl has pointed u to.

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Thanks guys for the fantastic feedback I am learning alot. Sleepy Wombat it is scary how close to the mark you are re machine supplier......you must have psychic powers. I can't be too hard on my predecessor from what I understand he did give it a fair go trying to understand the program but didn't get as far as he could, also I am led to believe my company asked for modifications to the functionality of the original machine so the programmer cut and pasted stuff from other programs and left redundant code in place that was uncommented so it became quite difficult to understand....anyway I digress. I am keen to understand this machine properly so I can support it in the long term....plus I love the challenge. I do see several of the instructions that you have mentioned sleepy wombat and agree totally about understanding the big picture of how the program is managing memory etc. No one has given me any feedback re comprehensive upload of data. I know this sounds silly but my predecessor has thrown the wind up me about hidden memory locations so I want to make sure I have a complete uploaded program before I go ahead and start tinkering with things. If it all goes pair shaped I need to get back to square one asap so I need to be confident I have uploaded properly. I can't imagine there is anything too tricky, a simple upload in any AB unit will do the job....I am sure Omron is the same....would really love to hear someone confirm this for me though. Cheers Guys. PS I am having great difficulty getting at the files Pdl pointed me to, when I click on the link it takes me to the page but there are errors. When I click to download nothing happens. Could someone else try to download and see if they get the same problem....thanks. Edited by KidPLC

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As you are in Ozz, get onto the local Omron office in Sydney for an Omron Digital Technical Library DVD. All manuals are on there although they may not be the very latest versions. Omron produce one of these each year and they are worth their weight in gold - no more paper manuals - great!! When you are online with CX-Programmer, double click on memory, click on DM, you can then upload as litle or as much of the data memory area as you wish. There are DM areas where setups are stored for various cards, serial ports etc etc. This is probably what your predecessor was referring to. All these areas are detailed in the manuals. Many of us load these values on the first scan flag in the program. That way if the battery goes flat the PLC will start OK with all settings. The program for the CJ,CS and CP is stored in flash RAM but the settings are not. They are in volatile DM and AR areas and can be stup on the first scan flag to load.

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Hi BobB, Thanks for the great info I will get online this morning and upload the memory data, I will also give Omron a ring and get a CD on the way. Did anyone try to down load the files recommended by PdL to see if it was an across the board problem with the website??? Cheers Fellas...appreciating all the help.

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It seems there is a problem with the downloads as you describe. I will notify the site admin about this. Here are at least 2 of them. W226_E1_07_CQM1_Programmable_Controllers_Operation_Manual.pdf W228_E1_07_CQM1_CPM_SRM_Programming_Manual.pdf

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Thanks PdL appreciate the files you have sent. I got onto Admin myself actually and they said they where having no problem so I am not sure what to make of it. Anyway I am unravelling the functionality of OMRON and have located and uploaded the memory locations as described by BobB so I feel a little more comfortable with the upload procedure and the fact I now have a good original copy of the program as backup. I have not been able to find a matching offline program even though my predecessor says one exists so I have a fair road ahead. Apparently the form, fill and seal machine manufacturer only uses Syswin and has not stepped up to CX-one yet so it has been suggested to only proceed with Syswin the reason being that if I do need the support of the manufacturer I have not created an orphan project with CX-one. The thing is I really like the look and feel of CX-one so I would ideally love to continue with that package. Is is possible to convert a CXP file to a SWP file?? Edited by KidPLC

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what a load of cod's wallop... stick with cx-prog.. seriously would you stp back to APS after using RS Logix (you probably arn;t even aware of APS - the for runner to RS Logix) Continue with the package. (CX Prog that is). All i can say about your predecessor is that he didn;t have the knack... refer to a Dilbert Cartoon to understand the knack... Anyways, you seem to showing signs of it..

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Said with passion Sleepy Wombat.....ok you have talked me into it I will continue with the CX-Programmer software as you suggest. Cheers KidPLC PS I have heard of APS but have never delved into it...and don't wish to either

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BTW as u are prob aware CX can read/import the syswin file with symbols etc..... I only go bak to Syswin when programming C20 PLC's.... The last one i recently worked on was around 20 years old... and still clicking along.. A few pointers... Since you now have downloaded the datamemory values... i would suggest that you do a cross ref on the DM.. and the ilk.. this will show you where they have been used and more importantly the indirect addressed memory... ie if yro example i had used a scale function, i could see all of the parameters used in the DM.

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Links fixed - my bad. W228-E1-7 CQM1-CPM1-CPM2-SRM1 PLC Programming Manual W226-E1-7 Hardware Manual for CQM1 PLC CQM1 Addressing Quickstart

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You can go online with controller using offline copy that doesn't match what is in the PLC. The easiest way to prevent this by changing default setting: Tool menu, options, PLCs tab, and place checkmark "Prohibit the online operation until programs match"

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Thankyou Gentlemen...once again more invaluable information. I am cross referencing as we speak and I have ticked the "Prohibit the online operation until programs match". I have also successfully downloaded the documents PdL, much appreciated they are a big help. Cheers Guys, with your assistance I am well underway.

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Hello all, I have hit a bit of a wall this morning and I need some advice. I am armed with the OMRON Technical DVD and the pdfs from this site but I am embarassed to say that I cannot fully determine the IO addressing. My rack is like this. CPU43 OD212 TC001 TC001 ID212 From my reading I would have assumed the allocation would be as follows CPU43 local inputs - 000 OD212 - 100 TC001 - loop 1 001, loop 2 002. TC001 - loop 1 003, loop 2 004. ID212 - 005 However there is a discrepency and I found it when I started to add comments to IO I have several INI(61) instructions in the program but just to take one in isolation The Port Specifier is 1 The Control Data is 3 The First PV word is DM34 (which is value 0) Now when I go into the Symbols -> IO comments and start adding IO comments to 001 which I think is the thermocouple card loop 1 it ends up affecting the port specifier in the INI instruction. Now I thought the INI instuction is used for controlling the HSC/pulse output of the cpu. Any thoughts here fellas I am not sure what to make of this.

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You can create two symbols with the same value in this case... when entering in the program make sure you program via the symbol name in this case and it will allocate them correctly...

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Ok this sounds reasonable on the face of it but remember I have uploaded a program and the instructions are already populated with values (no comments though). I will add more code when I get my head around the operation of the existing program. So if I create two data symbols (in the Symbols table) as you have described how will the program decipher which instruction should have the tempcard1 symbol and which instruction should have the PortSpec symbol. I have already attempted this and the program automatically assigns the first symbol created to all 1 values in every instruction that has 1 in it. I am still trying to come to terms with what "Channel 1" actually is? is it the Temperature card Inputs or is it the CPU 43 HSC card inputs? it can't be both at the same time? OMRON was looking pretty straight forward for a while there.... Edited by KidPLC

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The CQM1 has been around for a while... it is not a computer but a dedicated CPU so to speak 1. The PLC dosn't care what type or symbol name you assign to it.... remember that ladder logic is only a graphical representation of mneumonic code, it just executes the code and assigned addresses. 2. Yes it will automatically assign the symbol therefore overwrite it with you new symbol. 3. Yes, unfortuneate that the instruction simply did not use a #001 to differentiate it to be port 1 rather 001 which is easily confused with channel 1... Omron like all other brands ain;t perfect... as Clint always said.. a mans got to know his limitations (applies to plc's as well) You have jumped into the deep end with older technology and instructions that most would not use... Kidplc you are doing a great job... and we like helping those who try to help themselves...

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A channel is just a 16 bit word in the memory. If this happens to be the location of an I/O card it will be assigned to that I/O If you say channel 1 on an CQM1, this will be the first input card on the rack, next to the PLC (outputs start at channel 100) If you have put the temp input unit there, it will be a temperature input channel, if it is a simple 16 points input card, it will be an input channel the inputs on the CPU are channel 0 beegee

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beegee, that was not his point... he understands the allocation of adressing as shown in a previous post... his point was that an INI instruction parameter specifies a port number and in his case for example port 001... if the temp card is next to the CPU then also the first loop PV will be 001... that is his confusion.. especially if he assigns a symbol to the temp loop 001 which automatically asssigns it to the INI instruction which is very confusing visually because you would think what the hell does the temp1 001 have to do with the high speed counter.. hence my point OMRON should have used a BCD (what ever ) notation to specifiy the port number in this case ie #001. Hence that is why i have suggested to create two diff symbols.. he will just have to re-enter the symbol (say the port number - so that the program listing makes more sense).

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Morning men, Thanks for your reply Sleepy Wombat and beegee every single bit of info is GREATLY appreciated. I now understand the IO addressing and the INI instruction thanks for helping me through that part. I have dug up some old drawings but unfortunately they don't align with an old program I have found or the small amount of IO I have identified to date so I need to get online and do some more IO identification. I can perform the IO identification far better now due to the help you guys have provided so I should be able to make some rapid progress when I get on the machine. Production has been using the machine non-stop so I won't get on it till later today. I have made general progress re understanding the overall operation of the machine, I believe at the beginning of each cycle a timer is started then ZCP(18) instructions monitor the timer accumulator and trigger functions based on the timer progress. I will know far more when I can identify sensors and signals to and from the HMI. Thanks again fellas Cheers KidPLC

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Hello Gents, Just thought I would give everyone a quick update of progress thus far. I have successfully commented the program, modified it and redownloaded. The modifications proved successful and production is very happy, the whole exercise has taken me about a week with other projects and breakdowns in between. I have to be honest in saying that I did take all the glory myself and I some how failed to mention the fantastic support that I received from the MrPLC team......sorry about that but the room was only big enough for one swollen head. Seriously guys thankyou very much all of you for the invaluable help provide....you may not think it was much but I tell ya from where I was sitting it was HUGE. Cheers Guys KidPLC PS Heading back off to the AB forum however I'll drop back in from time to time.

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