Maintenance Departments

[JMK 0]

Hi all, I am curious to how the maintenance departments are set up in different industries. I grew up as a maintenance electrician. I have always been in a maintenance department that represented different skilled trades. The most detailed department I belonged to contained: Millwrights, Machinists, Pipefitters, Tinners, Electricians, and Machine Repair. Others places that I have been through had at least the segeration of mechanics and electricians. My current employer is different. We have only Maintenance Technicians. We are trying to hire on Automation and Controls Technicians now. We get electricians applying that do not fit the mechanical requirements. I explained the above paragraph, in more detail, to the powers that be... They want an Electrician, Machine Repair, Fitter, Machinist, IT guy, etc. all-in-one to walk into our shop.

[TimWilborne 108]

This will be a much more effective technician. Your more lean and efficient maintenance departments usually have this requirement. It stops the finger pointing back in forth of whose responsibility it is to fix the problem.

[TConnolly 13]

Our maintenance technicians are expected to be cross trained. Most have primary skills in one area or another, some are better electricians, some know a bit about PLCs, some are better mechanics, some are better fitters and welders, etc. The maintenance manager will typically assign jobs based on skill set, but sometimes if a mechanically skilled tech is not available then an electrically skilled tech has to turn a wrench. Notice I didn't call them mechanic and electrician, they are all classified as Maintenance Techs. We invest a lot in training. About the only exclusive position is the machinists. All of the PLC programming, hydraulics, mechanical design etc. is done by our engineering group, which lends quite a bit of technical support to the maintenance techs - the two groups are well integrated. We all spend a lot of time hanging out with Bubba, Cletus, Junior and the lot. Edited 29 Apr 2008 by Alaric

[Steve Bailey 118]

These days everyone is expected to wear many hats. The days of strictly defined job duties are passing. Personally I think cross training makes for better maintenance technicians. Sure, Cletus may be a better welder than Bubba, but when you need a broken bracket welded in order to get the production line running again, and Bubba is on hand while Cletus is half an hour away, you'll be glad that Bubba knows how to strike an arc. The same holds when the problem is electrical. For far too long, the mechanical guys could get away with calling the electrical guy to change a fuse while the electrical guys were expected to be able to replace a broken timing belt or any other routine maintenance task. Of course, the law of supply and demand comes into play too. If all you can do is weld and welders are getting $10 per hour, that's what you're going to get paid. If you can weld, run a Bridgeport, make up a hydraulic hose fitting that doesn't leak, interpret the error code on a VFD, figure out that the reason the motor isn't turning is that it's not getting a speed reference signal from the analog output card in the PLC, etc, etc, etc, you're worth more money. If the HR department figures that you ought to be able to hire a multi-skilled maintenance technician for the price of a welder, they're not going to interview too many qulaified candidates. Please note that the above is not meant to disparage welders. Any decent welder will look at my pathetic welds and make a deal with me; they'll stay away from PLC programming if I keep my hands off the welder. Edited 29 Apr 2008 by Steve Bailey

[Mike Dyble 0]

I notice that so far most of the replies have come from the USA, well in the UK things are much the same. More and more companies are going down the 'multi skilling' route, in all industries. If this is just an excuse to reduce the size of the maintenance department, with no additional training, and no financial rewards then the result is demotivated department, However done properly it does work. The majority of problems/breakdowns tend to be fairly simple, and with multiskilling one person deals with problem from start to finish, so the benefits are obvious. Where it breaks down is if the company management expects that with a few days training everyone can weld, programme PLC's, work on electrical distribution systems and do all the other specialist activities at the same skill level as a specialist can, this is never going to happen. I would say that in the UK most maintenance departments are now multiskilled to some degree, with very few strictly segregating activities in the traditional manner. I think this is one area where the management attitude will make or break the success of a move to multiskilling in their first mention. They seem to forget that they are dealing with people on occasions, and very often the change is driven by the 'bean counters' who always seem to (in the UK anyway) take a short term view and dont see beyond the next 6 months.

[Guest]

Greetings JMK ... personally I'm not working in industry anymore - but lately I've had a lot of bosses send students to my classes for cross-training in PLC skills ... the story usually goes that they're having to take "whatever they can get" and then foot the bill for the required training ... here's a little story related to your company's desire for a "perfect fit" applicant ... several years ago a local company had me write a test to "weed out" undesirable applicants for a job which involved PID skills for the Allen-Bradley PLC-5 platform ... they tested numerous guys over several months with no success - and the test was “basic” (believe me) ... later my company contact told me that they flew in an applicant from Texas to take the test ... he ACED it in record time ... no sweat ... I asked if they’d hired the guy ... “Nope. We couldn’t afford him.” was the answer ... I’m not sure how that works into your company’s game plan - but that’s the story for what it’s worth ... I’d be willing to bet that the same “ouch” factor applies to what I’m seeing in my business: company’s who are finding it more affordable to hire “raw talent” and then pay for the necessary training - rather than trying to land the perfect candidate ... the guys who can just “walk in the door and go to work” are in short supply - and they usually have pretty steep salary requirements ... good luck with your search ...

[JMK 0]

Excellent conversation! So far everyone has stated that their maintenance departments have "jacks of all trades, but masters of none"... I went for a stroll on the local internet job services, and I noticed the same thing. However, the companies looking for Maintenance Techs (mechanical skills with the addition of PLC and Drives troubleshooting and programming) are offering a pretty low wage in comparison to companies looking for an Industrial Electrician. Where I came from, the skilled trades did everything in the premise. The machinists made the majority of the spare parts. The millwrights moved and installed the machinery. The fitters ran and replaced air, water, and steam lines. The electricians installed new power feeds and distribution equipment. We also did the entire control panel building and wiring. Some of us would write PLC programs, configure drives, etc. But, maintaining the plant equipment was the number one priority. Since we all had a sense of ownership, the installs were done "top notch". We also had the advantage of mastering the equipment, because it was installed in-house. Currently, we rely on outside contractors for 95% of the install work. Some of the last projects were done pretty sloppy and documentation is lacking. Some of the last projects were minor, where a qualified in-house millwright and electrician could have done the job better in the same amount of time... With better results, I might add, due to the ownership. I understand that in is no longer feasible for a company to keep an enormous maintenance staff. It is simply more cost effective to keep the “jack’s” staffed and contract out the big jobs.

[ssommers 20]

I work in a union shop and we have 2 trades in maintenance - electrical & mechanical. They each know some of what the other does, but have tacit agreements that they'll wait for the other if a job is beyond their capacity. I think I got lucky in hiring my newest electrician. I got a journeyman electrician with 10+ yrs of PLC & troubleshooting experience due to a union strike at another company by only advertising in the local PennySaver (free paper). I know he can turn a wrench, but don't know if he can weld and hope I never have to find out. Now if I could just convince my boss that I'm NOT a mechanical engineer. I've had 20+ yrs as an electrical controls engineer and can do some mechanical drawing due to designing control boxes. The boss wants me to design this little steel cart holding a cooling water tank and I know I'll over design it because I don't want it to fall apart. Good thing I've got a mechanical engineer at the next desk to review my design! He doesn't have time to design it because he's working on a chemistry analysis of the waste water treatment system which isn't his forte either. SIGH... Good luck JMK!

[Mike Dyble 0]

In the UK older experienced older engineers are either doing something else or working 'contract' owing to the poor salaries on offer to engineers compared with other professions in the UK. 'contract' means that you take a fixed term (usually) job at an hourly rate. In general you can expect to make anything upto double what you would make as a 'permanent' employee, and depending upon how you set yourself up there are some pretty useful tax advantages. OK so you probably work more hours, have less time off etc, but thats a personal decision. But you do get paid for what you work, no unpaid overtime. Many companies in the UK will not pay overtime to staff employees, and abuse the this further by expecting them to do regular overtime. As a result many companies have started taking on apprentices to cover skills gaps, and are training them up, but are unable to fill more 'technical' positions, so have to resort to offering 'contract' positions.

[forqnc 2]

Just adding my .02 cents Having served a 4 year Electrical apprenticeship in England (1986), we where cross trained in all fields we could expect to come across, mechanical, welding, sheetmetal work etc. PLC's where in our Plant but not really established in my early years. By my third year we where buying lines from Japan with Robots and PLC's here is where the fun began. Most of the 'Old timers' where set in there ways that if a air valve need to be removed, then the electrician disconnected it, the Mechanic removed it, and same with a motor, So imagine the look on the 'Old timers' (electricians) when they saw the PLC cabinets, they took a step back I went a step forward and have never looked back. By the time I finished my apprenticeship, the new apprentices where being trained more to be a Maintenance Technician. My next company was slowly moving towards Maintenance Tech's also. Now with my job here in the states, I have gone a full circle back to the old attitude of a mechanic does not touch wires and an electrician doesn't touch nuts. This is a attitude myself and the Mechanical Supervisor are working together to eliminate. As far as my job scope here now, when I was hired it was for Electrical design fo rmachines we build in house, I have designed the system and wired the machines. Since this side of the job has gone quite, I now troubleshoot/fix production machines, I have hung 3" conduit with the Electricians and recently was awarded a 5 axis CNC machine to program because the Machine shop only know how to program 3 axis Mt attitude is if I am working the day goes by quicker, if I am asked I will change the lights too. But it hasn't got that far yet.

[BobLfoot 301]

Like most posters I have seen the entire gambit of setups in my 20 years in Industry. I started working for a company which had only "machine keepers" kind of a catch all electrician / mechanic rolled into one. Next job was a strong union shop and electricians didn't touch bolts and millwrights didn't touch wires etc... My present position is Electrical Supervision on a union Plant were things are divided pretty much traditionally. We have Mechanics, Electricians, PipeFitter/Plumbers, Machinists and HVAC/Refrigeration Techs. Now my two cents. For general uptime it pays to have cross-trained, multi qualified people. But with regualtions being what they are (NEC, OSHA, Homeland Security, etc} it also pays to have a well trained specialist or two. I would not want every one of my mechanics trying to tighten the packing on an ammonia valve, just like I would not want every machinist figuring fusing requirements. I think I make my point.

[paulengr 44]

The trick to making this work is to offer multiple pay grades, similar to the way that the armed forces do it. In this scenario you may or may not have an experience (time-based) component. Then there is a series of skill/task based tests that have to be passed to graduate to the next pay grade. This way instead of having 25 different crafts and playing the "not my job" game, you have different skill sets and offer better pay for those who can program a PLC on the side while they are waiting for a long cut on a precision gear sitting in a milling machine. I've also been in shops where there is a time factor but it's also a time limiter. For instance, you have an apprenticeship program with certain requirements. The minimum time in the apprenticeship program was set at 6 months (180 days). The maximum time was 2 years. If an apprentice did not advance within 2 years, they were disqualified from the program and were not allowed to ever enter the program again (washouts). I believe there were also some intermediate steps in there but it's been a long time since I worked at that location. In between, the trick is how you manage the training program. For instance some companies offer training in-house. Others require anyone who wants to reach the higher grade to go out on their own and get the training. If it's formal training, companies are usually willing to pay for it via a reimbursement deal such as finishing a pre-approved course at a local college with at least a B average. That way someone can't just sign up for the class and then sleep through it (they're on the hook). This allows you to hire a conduit-runner or even a production person in-house once in a while that appears to have the aptitude (though not necessarily the skills) to eventually be a "maintenance technician" at an appropriate pay scale and train them into the position. It is important to exercise that program continuously, too. At my current employer, out of about 40 hourly maintenance positions, 3 are apprenticeships, about 2 dozen are "general" positions, and the rest are technician grade. The general/technician grade positions are somewhat screwed up (past poor management practices used them as Christmas bonuses) but the apprenticeship program is producing people that are usually more qualified than the ones that we can hire in from outside. The shop is split into electrician/mechanic. Right now of the three electricians we hired in the last 6 months, two are technician-grade already and one is essentially a conduit runner. All the conduit runner did prior was wiring houses and commercial properties, but he's trainable. We also just graduated an apprentice, we have one apprentice (production employee that moved to maintenance), and 3 that will never be technician grade (all with decades of experience but simply don't have the aptitude). It's not a perfect world and the ranks have gone through a lot of churn in the last year or so but generally speaking things are improving as there was a desparate need for new blood and to let some guys who have been doing the same thing for the last 30 years (I mean that literally...they had just as many skills after the first year as the thirtieth year) move on.

[splicer480 0]

Well, at my job. Which by the way, I'm the only one currently in the shop and has been that way for the last year. They want you as an employee to know PLC, robots, computers, networking, conduit and raceway installation, VFD's, power distribution, welding, have your state license, have at least a 2 year degree in the electrical field, CAD drawing, 3 phase power and control, panel building and installation, solid state devices and PCB's, etc.. etc.. etc.. If you want to make about 34K a year this is the job for you... Sarcasm there.. Let me know if you guys think that is the going rate for those qualifications.

[paulengr 44]

Uhh, depends on the area, but no, not even in some of the less affluent areas of the country these days. Willing to move to the Philly area?

[splicer480 0]

I would have moved about 5 years ago but I got divorced and didn't want to move away from my son. I got remarried about 2 years ago and bought another house and my wife is dead set on NOT moving so I'm kinda stuck. There are not very many opportunities where I live (Wheeling WV area) The steel mills are closing left and right. There were some food industries here but after a couple of salmonella cases they were shut down. I don't really want to drive over an hour (one way) to work in Pittsburgh. Plus the gas prices.. My boss has interviewed guys fresh out of tech school, but they have no experience in a plant environment or the training under a licensed electrician to qualify for the Journeyman's card. Plus with just knowing PLC's they can usually move and make more $ just doing that. One the other hand if he finds a Journeyman electrician, they don't have the PLC experience or computer experience for the more "Technical" things. (Robots and such) So thats why I have been alone in the shop for sooo long. Uhh, depends on the area, but no, not even in some of the less affluent areas of the country these days. Willing to move to the Philly area?

[speakerman 4]

Hey JMK; I am currently working in a mill where in the excitement to cross train everyone they gave a bunch of people training on how to edit PLC logic, and then access to the code. I have about a years worth of work ahead of me taking out the cross-purposed "improvements" that are messing up production. Like was said so well above, there are benefits and drawbacks to the multi-skilled employee, and the excitement of the accountant looking to cut that extra man can be implemented very badly. I like to deal with people who have multiple disciplines, but so far they are rare here in northern Canada. Have a good one, B.

[Richard M 0]

The year, 1996 (when I was hired), I was the third "electronics tech" in a shop with a maintenance supervisor, a maintenance planner and 6 guys working the floor. the 6 of split between 3 shifts. 2 electronics and an electrician on first, an electronics and elctrician (through experiance) on second, the guy on third was a mechanic. Since then, through attrition and downsizing in the company, we now are staffed with a maintenance supervisor and 2 electronics techs by title. My supervisor is on short term medical disability until his retirement in November. My coworker has been with us for ahout 9 months and is picking up on things very well. I must say it is after all, pretty much a sink or swim enviroment. Now here is the twist. We operate 3 shifts 5 or 6 days a week. Our hours are staggered, one works 7 am - 3 pm, the other works 9 am - 5 pm and is on call for the week, we rotate each week. Call ins are time and one half pay with a minimum time limit and also there are some extra $$$$ just for being on call. Today I was a mechanic, a computer programmer, plc programmer, pipe fitter, electrician, hvac tech, and fill in supervisor (someone has to to the paper work to justify our existance). Maybe tomorrow will be more exiciting......... oh, I almost forgot we have 2 cnc lathes to move. Edited 1 May 2008 by Richard M

[JMK 0]

Too True... I now do this on a daily basis as well, as I see that most of us do. We do employ a pay/progression system here as well. It is not an apprenticeship though. The idea of our pay/progression is equipment mastering... I don't wholly agree with this, because it doesn't really build upon a skill set. This method is pretty much a precedent causes v. effect scenario – the motor failed, so replace it. Not why did the motor fail and getting down to the root cause (troubleshooting). Back to the topic a hand. Don't get me wrong. I agree with the cross trained maintenance man. The problem that I am having is we are looking for that specialist - an electrical and controls guru. Unfortunately, the candidates that come in are strong in one aspect and weak in others. I personally feel that if they are strong electrical troubleshooters, have intermediate PLC troubleshooting skills, and a good attitude and ethic about them; then make an offer. However, there is conflict of interest regarding my pov... What's more, this area (Milwaukee, WI) was a large manufacturing center and heavily unionized. So that's what we're up against. Millwrights and machine repair guys who were not allowed to touch a wire, and electricians who were not allowed to turn a bolt. Like I mentioned before, I grew up like this. I served an apprenticeship in said environment. Upon being laid off, and as technology evolved, I decided to get an associate's degree in electronics. The next company that I worked with was also a union shop; the rules were a little more lax... Us electricians and the mechanics were thick as thieves and went on all calls together. We cross trained each other - a great learning experience.