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Dwane

Newbie (To AB) Needs Help!

18 posts in this topic

Hi All. I have been asked to do maintenance at a local company, and their primary PLC brand is Allen Bradley. Now, I have worked with AB before, but not for a VERY long time. The company uses PLC5's and SLC 5/03's and I am trying to find out what hardware and software I will need to communicate with both these PLC's. Is there a universal software package that will talk to both PLC's? And, do I need an adaptor to talk to these PLC's, or can I simply use a serial cable of some sort? Thanks in advance! Dwane.

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You will need RsLogix 5 and RsLogix 500. Got any HMIs? You can connect the the SLC 5/03s directly through their channel 0 9 pin serial port. We need more specific part numbers on the PLC5s to tell what you will need to connect How long will you need the software for? Do you just need to do some tweaking or is this a longterm need?

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At this stage, I haven't even seen the PLC's, so I really don't know what models the PLC5's are as yet. I do know that the newest of them would be at least 3 years old. And they did specifically mention the SLC5/03 PLC's. HMI's - Yes, I believe that there is some HMI's in amongst the factory, but again, I am unsure as to what models. I do know that there is one which is about 7" LCD type. I doubt that there would be much (If any) HMI programming involved. And the software will be needed for long term. A mate who has his own contracting business is looking at trying to get a contract with them (VERY likely given the current company who are profiteers!), and therefore trial/demo/time limited versions will be no good.

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You really need to know which PLC5s are in there before you come up with a price. Some PLC5 do not have an RS-232 interface that you can plug directly into and you must buy a fairly expensive adaptor, such as a 1784-PCMK to interface with them. If unsure, include one in your price. Better safe than sorry

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I hope to get out there later in the week, so I will have more of an idea then as to exactly what they have out there. I will try to note each and every PLC and HMI, but with any luck they will all have an RS-232 port. I take it that if a PLC has an RS-232 port, that it can be used for programming directly from a computer? Also, are pinouts available for the SLC5/03 cable? Or is it just a null modem cable? Handshaking? (Gotta love RS-232 - The greatest non-standard ever invented!)

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NO, or let me clarify. Some older models used the same 9 pin connector for a DH+ port that is used for a RS-232 port. Similarly when you look at the SLC5/03 you will see that channel 1 looks like an Ethernet port though it is actually an RS-485 ports. You can't tell the difference but I'm thinking it does say right beside of the port. Best to get part numbers. I don't work with PLC5s much but maybe one of the members here that do will jump in and tell you the particular ones to watch out for a little later this morning

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Now I know why I was glad that my current employer has Omron PLC's - So much simpler. I'll grab the PLC numbers and the revision numbers off as much of the gear that I can get to, and hopefully it will all turn out to be very straight forward. Also, can you please just clarify one more thing for me - I WILL need both the software packages regardless? Is that correct? RsLogix 5 and RsLogix 500. And what do I need for the HMI's? Thanks for your help. You have pointed me in the right direction. :)

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RsLogix 5 is for the PLC5 RsLogix 500 is for the SLC Before you ask...Splitting the software like this allows users not to have to pay a huge amount for software when all they have to program is a $500 Micrologix. There is a RsLogix bundle but I think it includes RsLogix 5000. I'm not sure. Find out all you need, then talk to you distributor about the packages Need to know the brand for the HMI. They may not even be AB Chances are all the PLC5s and SLCs will have the Channel 0 serial port you need. But the extremely old ones didn't. In fact I've never seen one. I just hate for you to find out you need some interface adaptor to go online with the PLC when your working a breakdown in the middle of the night.

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Thanks for all your info. The one thing I failed to mention is that the plant was new about 5 years ago, and nothing was second hand. That would possibly indicate that they will all have the appropriate serial port. All good. :) I'll confirm it when I go there anyway. As for the HMI, the only one that I know of is an AB one. There could be more hiding somewhere in the plant, but I am yet to have that good a look around the plant. I distinctly remember seeing one at about 2am one morning while I was out there installing a Soft Starter that had decided to self destruct. Then again, it was 2am.......But am 90% certain I can remember seeing the legendary blue AB logo and trim on it. Software is somewhat of a sore point. The company I work for uses Omron in about 95% of it's machines, and for under $1000 (Australian), I can program almost every Omron PLC, later model HMI's, VSD's, Servo Drives and, well, everything Omron. And for the most part, it is simple to setup and use. Then again, AB have always had this thing about taking maximum advantage with their software. Sucks, but that's how it is - At least in Australia.

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If it is an AB Panelview then you just need to know the color of the bezel. White will be a Panelview Plus and Black will be the older Standard Panelview. Part Numbers would again be nice to verify how to communicate Standard Panelview - Panelbuilder 32 Panelview Plus - RsView ME

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The "classic" PLC-5's such as the 5/10, 5/15 & 5/20 have DH+ only. The newer "enhanced" processors have a serial port and a DH+ port, plus it may have controlnet or ethernet ports also, all depending on the model number. If you're lucky the will ethernet, and no special hardware or software will be require. Serial communications for a large PLC-5 program can be a pain.

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No probs. I'll get as much info as I can, and will probably be back after that. I just don't want to be ripped off/scammed by our local AB dealer. If I can go in with a goo heads-up on what I need, then that will make it less likely that we will get takn for a ride. Thanks for all your help. It is very much appreciated. Cheers. Dwane.

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Small suggestion if you are scouting round the site look for spares that you can "borrow" to set up a test system eg for SLC5/03 1 power supply 1 processor 1 rack some i/o, if not maybe you will have to include in costs because you are definitely going to want to have some serious playing time in a darkened room before you try and connect out on the plant the intricacies of learning to use Linx as well as Logix at 2am are not to be contemplated. Also are you going to be able to get the original commented programs because sorting out uploads can be quite a chore when you have no rung comments or i/o labels Phil Edited by comeng

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That's a good idea, although I am familiar with the company's "spares store" - The average toilet would be about twice as large as it, so I doubt that I will have any luck. However, the company I work for has got a couple of SLC's which were on some 2nd hand machinery they purchased a few years ago. There is no software, although there is a hand held terminal of some sort here. I might see if my boss would be prepared to let me buy one of them so I can at least play around a bit. I did have dealings with RSLinx about 2 months ago. (Micrologix 1000 - Limited version of software) I was asked to make a small control box for a boiler alarm, and they wanted to use AB. So, I am all too familiar with the joys of RSLinx. I think my biggest drama with RSLinx is the terminology, being so different to the Omron system I am so familiar with. As for commented programs, that may be another story. However, given that the machines were purchased as complete running machines (And built specifically for this company), I dare say that there should be something floating about somewhere on site. It probably won't be up to date, but at least it will be something. That's another question I will be asking. Thanks for your input - It's all appreciated. Edited by Dwane

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The "classics" are 5/10, 5/12, 5/15, and 5/25. These have d-shell connectors that are not RS-232. The "new platform" models are 5/11, 5/20, 5/30, 5/40, 5/60, and 5/80. These have d-shell connectors that are RS-232. The progression in model numbers designate more memory and/or I/O. The "new platform" models hit the streets down under in 1991 so, given the 5 yr age of the plant, it is most likely that you have these type of PLC-5's.

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I give you a list (pdf file) of possible configuration to help you to find the cable you need. the gif file is the pinout for a couple of cable.... Hint -> 1761-CBL-PM02 (micrologix connector DIN 8) cable can be made with a macintoch serial cable (with two dremel knoch!) good luck.... cable_configuration.pdf

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Greetings Dwane ... here’s one other thing that hasn’t been specifically mentioned about the “serial” port on the SLC-5/03 ... that port is re-configurable in the software ... what this means in practice is that just because the port happens to be there doesn’t necessarily mean that you can connect to it for programming purposes ... example: the port might have been configured for the “User” mode and something like a barcode reader or printer, etc. might be connected to the serial port when you arrive ... oops! ... even if you disconnect that other device and plug in your programming computer, you might not be able to “get into” the SLC for programming purposes ... going further ... it sounds like you’re going into this project as a long-term undertaking ... based on what you've posted so far, if I were you I’d look into investing in a “kit” part number 1784-PCMC ... this SHOULD get your laptop connected to ANY of the PLC-5 processors over DH+ (Data Highway Plus) ... also I recommend an “extra” cable 1784-PCM4 ... this (in conjunction with the kit mentioned above) SHOULD get you connected to the SLC-5/03 through its DH-485 (Data Highway 485) port ... survival tip: is there any way to get your hands on the plant’s existing program files before you go to the site? ... these will probably end in .RSP and .RSS extensions ... if you can get these files, then consider posting them here on the forum ... first of course, make sure that the customer doesn’t regard them as “trade secret” or “proprietary” property ... once we take a look at those files, we can give you advice with a LOT more detail ... good luck with your project ... Edited by Ron Beaufort

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Thanks slcman for the info's. I am sure that it will come in handy with all that is likely to happen. Ron, thanks for the heads up. However, as far as I know, there is probably less than 10 PLC's in total at the plant. And from what I am being told, there is only 3 or 4 different ones, including a couple of micrologix 1000, which I am already geared up for due to a small project at the plant earlier in the year. I intend to get out there on Friday and poke my nose into all the panels to find out exactly what I am dealing with, including HMI's etc. All good info though, so thankyou to all of you.

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