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A new pet peeve of mine

43 posts in this topic

What is up with websites requiring you to "register" with them in order for you to recieve even the most basic info from their site? I went to the Hirschmann site trying to get a cut sheet for an e-net switch. Seems like a simple enough request. But nooooooo... I've got to first give them my personal info and wait for an e-mail confirmation. do de do de do.. waiting.. waiting.. Hey, there's my confirmation. Hmm.. but instead of a password, it's a link i've got to click on. ok, whatever.. *click* Hey, what the heck? "Your login is activated approx. 15 minutes after you have clicked the activation link." So now I've got to wait another 15 minutes before I can log in and download the stupid thing?! If it were my choice (which it isn't, they're the only one on the GM approved list) I'd use that 15 minutes to find another vendor. Edited by gravitar

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I feel your pain. I understand a companies need learn about their potential customers from a marketing point of view, but I think many of them have taken it too far. If it is a quick registration process and an email confirmation then I can live with that and see where it is beneficial to them. But when they want to know how many employees I have, my annual sales, and which products of theirs I currently use and which of their competitors I currently use all before I can download the manual to get basic specifications to decide if their product will fit my application then I say that is going too far.

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I also feel your pain! Add having to have a user ID and Password for each of these sites. Now add that some of these sites also make you chang the password each month! AHRG! BUD

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I wish that they could just scan our eyeball and forget user names and passwords. Or maybe we could all get the probe like Robo Cop and R2-D2?

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There are many dozens of companies that have failed to get my business because of @&!)%# like that. And I'm pretty sure that there are hundreds of thousands of potential customers who feel the same way. The idiots in marketing/web site design are only shooting themselves in the foot. It takes less time to hit the back button and go to the next site on the google list.

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I can understand your level of frustration in obtaining basic product information. Let me ask this, if you receive something that is of value for nothing and all the manufacturer asks in return is your contact information (not number of employees, sales figures, etc...just contact information) do you consider that to be asking too much? I ask, because we offer our software for download but password protect it, and require submission of one of our forms as registration. Once the form has been reviewed and verified, a password is emailed. The alternatives from our competition are: 1. Pay for the software and then receive it 2. Download a limited version demo package and then pay for the full version software.

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It's good to get the "other" point of view. My beef with Hirschmann isn't so much that I had to fill out the questionaire. My problem with them is that I could not immediately view the installation instructions once I filled it out! I had to play the hokey pokey with them sending me an email, then i have to click on a link, then i get another email from them, which finally gave me my beloved password. Oh by the way, you can't use the password right away, either. As their email warns, it takes them about 15 minutes to update their server. Now mind you, I wasn't trying to download software from them. I just wanted to get the dimensions of the box and a pinout for the connectors. You have to go through all this baloney to get that basic info from them. Most other vendors I deal with let you have that without having to "beg" Here's my next beef.. No CAD blocks on their website. Not a REAL big deal I guess, but it would speed up our design process if they would take it upon themselves to make these avalable for download. I guess A-B and Hoffman have me spoiled I made my concerns known through their website feedback form, let's see if/how they respond.

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Steven, my frustration is with companies that require you to register to download a sales brochure or to view an online catalog or view the published specifications of a product. If I am getting a product from them (such as a software download or tech support) then I understand their desire to know who is using the product. But when I am looking to see what a company offers and I'm not a customer yet, I don't want to register to see the commercial. Edited by Alaric

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I fully concur with both of you in the respect of obtaining product information. It should be easier to obtain the information. Our view has always been that our web site is a 24/7 brochure that also provides a basic customer support facilitator, available to anyone, anywhere at anytime.

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I have no problems with this, especially for downloading software or some, should I say, that is a more serious inquiry. It's registering for the little things that bugs me. You see more and more smaller companies doing this now. In my opinion they are loosing potential customers with this. I'm still not sure you shouldn't have an easy to download demo. You know how it is. You've got to evaluate 10 different products in the next 48 hours and turn in your proposal. The company with the least amount of hurdles stands a much better chance. But let's turn this around. What do you really gain by gathering this information? And please don't tell me you call them after a period of time to find out if they like it

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Brochures and leaflets are not enough. I need the works. I get more precise information by reading the manual than reading a brochure. And one particular information I want immediately with no fuzz about - the list price. I just HATE when someone needs a long list of information, and then they will "prepare" a quotation for me, for one single item. How hard can it be ? I just need to know in approximately what price region I shall operate. Discounts and the like can be discussed at a later time. If I can, I shy away from vendors that do not plainly state list prices on their website. I can understand the requirement for registering to recieve fully functional demo software, but that is another topic.

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If you look at a web site like Global Spec, you have to be registered to view their information. I believe what happens from there is that they are able to create specific information that can then be used by the advertiser. With a paid listing, you receive certain benefits. I remember registering on Global Spec and viewing some of the PLC manufacturer listings, and actually received calls from some of them...because I visited their listing / web site. This is not the same as what some of you were describing, however the last response had to do with information generated, and what do you do with it. By making you register on their web site, they can now keep track of who visits, what they visit and how long they are there. Without registration, all you can really tell is how many people visted and what pages the visited...but you don't know who. There are lists of information everywhere. Created by companies such as credit card issuers, telephone companies...with this information being sold to whomever wants to buy it. I'm not saying that all companies do this, but we are living in an information world today...verifiable sales leads are like gold. From our perspective, we receive requests after people have visited our web site. We have some decent rankings through Google for relevant search terms. Once they visit our web site, and download the software, they then require a password. In order to receive that password, they are required to complete one of our forms. We will contact the person, based on the information we receive. We will tend to pay more attention to companies that we view as OEMs. We receive many requests from students for the software. We also get many request from people looking for a simulator for other manufacturer's PLCs...typically AB. We tend to invest little time in these inquiries but still provide them with the password. We even get submissions that have nothing but garbage information. In that case, we will respond back, stating that insufficent information has been provided and that they would need to resubmit their form with proper contact information. By doing this, gives us a way to generate our own qualified sales leads.

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You're still talking about downloading software, I think. I don't have a problem with providing information before I download software. What I'm talking about is simple product data. The stuff that anyone should be able to get if he walks into a sales office and asks for it. I hate to offer A-B as the paradigm, but I can go to www.theautomationbookstore.com and download a .PDF of just about any cut sheet, installation guide, or user manual for ANY of their products. They don't care who I am, how many people I supervise, or what my net sales were last year. If I want literature, they'll let me have it. Right now, no strings attached. That's good business.

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TW had asked the following: I had responded in kind to his question. I can't speak directly as to why some companies do what they do...but based on what I know, offered an observation as to why they are making you register. Basically, they want to know who you are. From our perspective, our information is there for anyone who wants to view it. When you become interested and want to evaluate software, etc...then we like to know who we are dealing with. Business has become so impersonal, so anonymous. What happened to the days where you actually had a relationship with your customers? Although old-fashioned, that is how we prefer to do business. I can't say that the motives of other companies are the same, but we like to know who we are working with.

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For things like price quotes, no more information should be asked on a web site than if you called them on the phone to get a quote. I've never has anyone ask me a long list of questions before giving a price quote, its usually nothing more than name, company, phone number, if even that.

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No problems here with having to register to download software. Just wanted to get that out before someone thought I was arguing That's not quite true. Now I'm no expert on websites and I know you have put quite a bit of effort into optimizing your website for the search engines so I started not to mention it but I recalled you learning a thing or two about Google search engines in a thread and thought I would go ahead. Plus it might be helpful for some others. Have you looked at some services such as Google Analytics? With it no only do you get realistic numbers on how many people have visited your site as opposed to hit counts, but I can tell visitors location, domain, how they were referred to my site, how long they visited, whether they are a new or a returning visitor, browser used, screen resolution, and many other useful facts. I can use this information to determine if my marketing tactics are working. If I work a call on a particular area I can usually see an increase in my hits in that area. I'll usually try to drop a hint of an article on my site that pertains to a project they have coming up to help. Seems to help them give me a second look. I can usually determine who a specific company is and see their repetitive visits to my site when they are interested. I can also see interest growing in areas that I have not concentrated on and shift my marketing tactics address this interest I can pretty much track the same information as you can without requiring registration. So...have you visited my site?

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This is indeed extremly frustrating and this is why those guys are not getting our business (or not as much). If someone is looking for product information, it is because he needs to find out how to make it work. This means they got or are getting the product. Maybe it would be good idea to add Manufacturer rating section where one could see list of companies (sort in alphabetical order, by rating etc.), and have option to add another one at any time. Each would get same rating method (a template) and some user comments. I don't know, maybe 0-5 rating for: - products design, (junk, does the job but tedious to setup, piece of cake...) - quality and completness of documentation (manuals, drawings,...) - quality of support (website, phone, ) - product availability (they can have best product but if they cheat with delivery times, i sure would like to know in advance...) - would recommend it (yes, no, maybe...) i guess price also plays the role but imho the most costly part of any implementation is not the money spent on product but time to get it to work. just something to pick your brains...

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T, Thanks for the information regarding Google Analytic. We have software that allows us to do the same thing. I had briefly looked at what they offer, and it didn't provide any additional benefit to what we currently use. The software we have allows us to keep track of all the information you had mentioned and also tracks information from Yahoo and MSN, not just Google. In reviewing our statistical information, I had noticed we were receiving more entries into our web site through our software page than our home page. This prompted me to redo our software page and treat it as a second home page. It isn't just about tracking the information but creating sales leads from interested parties. By requiring registration on a web site for product information, brings in that specific information, but there is more work required to weed through interested vs. just looking. By download an item to evaluate, they have shown interest and taken action. It is the taking action part that we go after. If someone took action to do something and therefore take time to evaluate something that is product specific, they are a more valuable lead. As such we concentrate on those that respond back. Don't get me wrong, we also look at the overall numbers to view trends as to what works and what isn't working. However, when someone willing provides their contact information, and in many cases their application needs, that lead is gold. The point that I was trying to make about site registration, is that the information obtained can be more specific than non-registered information. This is probably why some companies want you to register, in order to use their web site. For instance, look at these shopper cards that have been around for several years now. Without a card, the store can keep track of general information. But, when you obtain a card, you have to provide them specific information about yourself, and therefore, with the barcode on the card, they can track specific purchasing habits of each individual customer, rather than only being able to identify, that store 123 sells more pepsi products than store 456. They encourage you to obtain the cards by attaching discounts and specials with the card. As a result, the information that they are able to generate is quite valuable...some even sell their information to other companies. Same thing with a non-registered site. We can view URLs, track which pages people view and for how long, but we don't know if it is the same person. Look at a site like ESPN...when you register, they place a cookie on your computer to identify who you are from that computer specifically. For me personally, that gets to be a little to big brotherish. Our experience has been with our software download that those who are interested will respond by completing a form. Those that aren't interested, why inconvenience them. Our goal for those that are interested is to be on top of their request.

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Stephen. I went and took a look at your site. I can download manuals for the software - good. I can download wiring diagrams for the hardware - good (but the diagrams look awful - you really should clean this mess up. They make you company look like some backyard firm, and you dont want that, right ?). I can not download manuals for the hardware - bad (makes me wonder if you even have manuals for your hardware !). You do not state list prices or have price list ready for download - bad. Dont take this personally, but I would never consider your company as a supplier. Why not earn a few easy plus points by making it easy for your potential customers. I really do not understand your point of view. This nonsense with having to fill out a questionaire to just get a price or a manual belongs in the history books. Panic, of course prices are important. The last time I got a quote the hard way, I got disappointed by a factor 3 (!). I could have used my time (and the vendors time) on something useful if I had known the approximate price from their website. I had to fill out a long questionaire and also explain such soft matters as "what our strategy for the long term" was. It was a US based company by the way.

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This is probably going on a tangent, but I checked out the Entertron site, and didn't get much farther than where I read this statement: "With Entertron's ePLCs, you are able to offer a product that doesn't look like a PLC, therefore you don't have to call it a PLC." I hope this isn't being too harsh but in my opinion, that seems somewhat dishonest. I don't know about other industries, but this simply wouldn't fly in the auto business. All but the most unsophisticated customers (and there's very few of those left) have a specified PLC family, and would quickly see through any flowery prose trying to disguise the controller. I was a plant maintenance supervisor for a while, and believe it or not these places have a spec for a good reason. It's hard enough trying to keep everything running, even when there's only a handfull of different make/model of controllers to deal with!

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Jesper, Thank you for your comments. To address each specifically: First off, we don't require registration for manuals or pricing. Second, you obviously don't understand what we are about as a company. Unlike many of our competitors, that offer either a brick or modular product, ours is board level and can be configured in many different ways. One example of many - we have a customer that uses the Smart-PAK PLUS with the following configuration: - 8 digital inputs - 6 relay outputs - 1 analog input @ 0-5 VDC - 1 analog input @ 0-20 mA - 1 analog input @ 0-50 mV - 1 analog input @ RTD - 4 analog outputs @ 0-10 VDC - Real Time Clock - 2 RS232 ports - ModBus RTU A traditional brick will more than likely not handle ALL of the above capabilities. A modular system will require the CPU, backplane and 7 individual I/O modules. This is all done in one controller using two boards. Now, to provide a price list that will handle this configuration and 10,000 others would be rather time consuming not to mention confusing to the customer. For this reason we take the approach of reviewing the application requirements and then configuring a PLC for that application. Are there standard configurations...yes. Could we post them...yes. Chances are people will look at what is posted, specificially looking for what they need...if it isn't there, they will typically move on. By doing this, we give the customer personal attention in considering their application on its own merits. In response to Gravitar's post: Our statement isn't dishonest or misleading. It isn't in a plastic box...there isn't a back plane. It doesn't look like a PLC. It is directed towards the OEM that is trying to offer standard hardware. It is directed at the OEM that wants to generate additional revenue from service. It is directed at the OEM that is tired of supporting various controller platforms. It is directed at the OEM that doesn't want anyone to know exactly how or what they are doing. Our products look like a custom design rather than a traditional PLC. Our primary market isn't the end user, but the OEM. You are correct in that it wouldn't fly in the auto industry, primarily because each manufacturer has standardized on one supplier. Our products are not for large I/O installations, but rather small I/O process, machine, or mobile applications. We have dealt with some Fortune 500 companies but our primary focus is directed towards small to medium size OEMs. Each person will have their own preferences as to the type of company they will want to work with. Just as some will choose not to work with certain companies for whatever reason, I would be nieve to think that the same isn't true for us. My apologies for the tangent this thread has taken. God Bless,

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No, it is not time consuming or confusing to get a few examples of applications and prices. :)

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Now let's not get personal. There is some very good opinions coming out of this on what customers consider a hassle and what is acceptable. I am watching this thread closely since hopefully I can get some good tips on how to learn more about my potential customers.

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I see Enteron's point but I also see the others as well. I understand the need for sales imformation and Enteron is trying to target OEM's but you walk a fine line there. If you cut off the end user enough he will specify that your product not be used on any of his equipment. I have done this in the past and will continue to do this. When I buy a machine from an OEM and he has black box componets in his system you can bet I will be working on one of two things. Getting that machine out of my plant or ripping out the black box componets and redoing the system. Nothing will get me hot quicker than someone to tell me we only sell to OEM's. I know that is NOT what you said Enteron, I just wanted to make that point. The reasoning is simple. Almost no OEM has 24 hour onsight support, and if they have any kind of support it is going to really cost me. As for having to fill out a questionare why not make it voluntary. If someone is just looking for basic imformation or a cut sheet they can avoid this. IF they want more indepth imformation on your product then fill out the regestration. Pricing should be easy to get even if it is an estimate. List it as such. This is the price before discount, then give everybody a discount cause you like them and everybody is happy. I guess the way I look at it. Is when web sights are set up people should remeber they are dealing with other people and Courtesy goes a long way. I have filled out questionares in the past rating Web Pages and one thing I put down is would you treat someone this way if they were on the phone or in person infront of you. For the record. If I am researching a project and I see that I have to regester for imformation I back click and move on. The only time I regester on a Web Page is when it is a product I use or am definatly going to be using.

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I think you guys are being a little hard on Entertron. I think it is amazing one can get the price so low. It shows discipline. Our engineers always wan't to build 'porches' and 'bentlys'. We can't make anything that doesn't cost 2 to 3 times as much. Actually, we have built a low end motion controller but it will never come to market as a end user product. As and OEM product we would expect the OEM to support it. Since we see this as unlikely we have decided not to market it. The support cost would eat up all the profits if we got the calls. Most calls are application calls and these are really questions that the OEM should answer anyway. We too have 'free' software but then it must be paid for some how. It is factored into the price of the hardware. We are just starting to require a way of contacting the people downloading firmware. This will be used to keep us updated as to who has what version of firmware. TW mentioned you can get an idea of who is browsing your site by the IP address but this takes a while to hunt the people down.

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